Arizona -(Ammoland.com)- On June 24, at about 10 a.m. citizens peacefully openly and legally carrying holstered pistols were detained by police for two hours. The police closed the pier where the Second Amendment activists were fishing.
The legal open carriers were eventually released and allowed to continue their activities. However, police remained at the scene and actively discouraged other members of the public from making contact with the Second Amendment activists. From miamiherald.com:
Police reopened the pier, but left a couple of officers there and stated, “We are encouraging visitors to use other portions of South Pointe Park.”
The men cited Florida Statute 790.25(3), the (h) subsection of which allows openly carrying a gun by “person engaged in fishing, camping, or lawful hunting or going to or returning from a fishing, camping, or lawful hunting expedition.” They came prepared with a print out of the statute.
The action is almost certain to result in a lawsuit or lawsuits against Miami Beach for numerous violations of Constitutional rights. From local10.com:
Eric Friday, general counsel for Florida Carry, said the men were held by police for two hours and had guns drawn on them.
“Overreaction would be an understatement, but I do believe they overreacted,” Friday said.
Friday said his group planned to take legal action against the city for how the police handled the situation.
If you look at the image from local10.com, you can see that at least one Second Amendment activist was wearing a body camera. He appears to be in restraints.
The group associated with the event, Florida Carry, is a well managed resourceful, and experienced Second Amendment group. They have won several settlements in Florida courts. It is likely that more than one video camera was recording events. Florida Carry had this comment on its Facebook page:
The illegal attack on our members by the Miami Beach PD is a developing incident. We are pouring every necessary resource in to this incident.
Most of the news coverage of the police action says the Second Amendment activists were “briefly detained”. Two hours is not “briefly detained”. There is considerable court precedent about the definition of “briefly detained”. It is less than 10-20 minutes.
In this case, there was no probable cause. There was no reasonable suspicion. Open carry demonstrations while fishing have been ongoing in Florida for several years, and have been widely publicized.
The use of police resources to actively persuade members of the public to avoid contact with open carriers is an important twist to this event .
Open carry demonstrations are powerful, protected, symbolic speech. The stated purpose of the demonstration was to exercise First Amendment rights to protect and advance Second Amendment rights.
The Miami Beach Police used their police power to directly chill the exercise of the First Amendment, without any legal reason to do so.
This will not end well for Miami Beach.
Florida remains one of the five states where open carry of pistols is generally prohibited in public by state law. There are a few exceptions, such as open carry while camping or fishing or while in transit to and from such activities.
General open carry, is legal in 45 states. It has been stalled in the Florida legislature for the last few years through underhanded defections by Republicans and through machinations of the Republican leadership. Those Republicans tend to lose their seats.
Eventually, I expect open carry to pass in Florida. There is no valid reason for it to be illegal.
There is one invalid reason. Open carry makes a loud, clear, political statement: the Second Amendment is real, and it means something.
Those who wish a disarmed population find that statement insufferable.
©2018 by Dean Weingarten: Permission to share is granted when this notice is included.
About Dean Weingarten:
Dean Weingarten has been a peace officer, a military officer, was on the University of Wisconsin Pistol Team for four years, and was first certified to teach firearms safety in 1973. He taught the Arizona concealed carry course for fifteen years until the goal of constitutional carry was attained. He has degrees in meteorology and mining engineering, and recently retired from the Department of Defense after a 30 year career in Army Research, Development, Testing, and Evaluation.
A lawsuit brought about by OpenCarry.org would be proper at this time. Support and backing by both the NRA and the GOA should QUICKLY FOLLOW SUIT, which will take an average of 3 years or more to come to fruitation, lest a quick and equitable settlement by those that broke the law… E.g., Miami PD.
HISTORY teaches us about LORD ACTON:
https://acton.org/research/lord-acton-quote-archive
A great guy! Wish I could have run with him, Einstien and many others but in today’s world we have ourselves and the option of HISTORY so that we do not have to keep reinventing the wheel.
42 usc 1983
Check it out and sue them!
Learn more at opencarry.org. And carry on!
This is hilarious!
The only reason to carry a gun is fear. You are all SCARED!!
SCARED!!!
The rest of us outgrew our fascination with guns long ago.
SCARED!!
SCARED REALLY How about it’s their RIGHT to carry rather you personally like it or not.Your thinking would apply to your 1st amendment on running your little fat jaws.
Are you a “Well-Regulated Militia”?
No? then, you have to give up your musket.
“the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.” Feel free to not own any guns. Leave the rest of use alone.
@Gkam, So you are an expert Constitutional lawyer, too! The collective government right theory, and cemented in time theory, that you allude to have been thoroughly discredited. Have you read no Second Amendment cases?
Nor does the Right to obtain, carry, and sell firearms depend upon the Second Amendment for its existence.
@Gstring, Ain’t you?
Every citizen and every person who intends to become a citizen [ legal entry] is a potential active militia member. Well regulated means trained and equipped with military grade weaponry. The standardization of calibers dates back to 1792 and the first Militia Act which defined “well regulated” as to musket caliber, and other equipment required. Today the AR is the Militia Standard Rifle which uses the standard ammunition available from government supplies should the USA be invaded. Further it is a credible deterrent to tyrannical government. This explains why the MSM attacks possession of AR type rifles since they are… Read more »
No government gives guns to its populace with the idea it is for changing regimes!!
The rest of us OUTGREW our fascination with guns long ago.
Why not you?
You folk talked yourselves into that position because it is what you want.
@Gkam, You probably did not explore the world of firearms enough. I could spend a week in my shop just experimenting with brass type and weight , powder type, powder amount, bullet type, and bullet weight of a single caliber. The experiments are endless, and the experiment chart immense. There are more shooting games to master than I can name from bullseye to BUG to Bianci to IPSC to three gun to shot gun to machine gun tournaments to plinking. Then there is just plain showing off, from trick shooting to tricked out, to barbecue guns never to be fired… Read more »
Well the internet wasn’t invented back then so I guess your freedom of speech is void on here.. Please send me something written with a quill pen by horsemen…
Human right to self preservation pal. Being afraid has nothing to do with it.
Well, okay, but I am never sufficiently scared to resort to guns.
@GKAM, there is also a good chance that you were bottle fed and not from the teat which probably diminished your intellectual nourishment at a younger age. A great many of us are in fact from, “regulated militia” having served in the armed forces in defense of this country, taking an oath that has no expiration date. As for you with your assumption of being scared only tells us that you are not mature enough to understand the purposes, principles or reasons behind owning a gun, much like a young-in that cannot yet drive a car… Best you let your… Read more »
Amen He probably still is nursing.His body grew but don’t know what happened to the brain.I think it shrunk an has some kind of tumor (.stuipity tumor)
“A great many of us are in fact from, “regulated militia” having served in the armed forces in defense of this country, taking an oath that has no expiration date.”
I am a Vietnam Vet.
How about you?
@GKAM
Operation Iraqi Freedom
Ben: Welcome Home.
@Gkam, Your proposition that, ” The only reason to carry a gun is fear.” is false. I carry my firearms because they are jewelry. I have several rare, breath taxingly expensive, fully engraved, gold inlaid, preban-ivory grip, never been fired barbecue pistols that I would never consider firing. The remainder of your syllogism is also false.
It does, however, say a lot about you and your lack of knowledge concerning psychology, sociology, economics and firearms collection.
@WB, give it a few hours for my response to GCRACK to show up because he just proclaimed to be a Vietnam Veteran!
Who is GCRACK?
We were unarmed electronic recon, with 75 people in three aircraft over the trail, Khe Sanh, and other targets continuously.
@GKAM, I have an uncle that did the same thing! He lives in Hawaii, now. Maybe you know each other. What was your MOS?
We were the 553d Recon Wing, the project was Igloo White.
I was a Comm troop, and the entire project was out of our shop. We had 51 radio systems plus crypto and digiplexers and sonic analyzers and all kinds of stuff.
I am an original BatCat.
What is his name?
Rick Nelson
@gkam
Operation Iraqi Freedom
Hold it, “HERO”! YOU just proclaimed…. Author: GKAM Comment: “A great many of us are in fact from, “regulated militia” having served in the armed forces in defense of this country, taking an oath that has no expiration date.” I am a Vietnam Vet. How about you?” After all your shit-sucking weasle-drenched remarks to people in this forum? You better start praying to whatever, God you use that I do not get you in the process of, Stolen Valor! But first let me backup and beg your forgiveness of our United States States Congress, The United States Marine Corps and… Read more »
My gosh, why are you so nasty? Please check me out, so you can find reality. I would tell you my full name, but you have already threatened me with violence. Ribbons? Like the two Outstanding Unit Citations we earned “With combat ‘V’ device”? Our unit was boiled down to an SOG, the 353d, which kept the emblem drawn for us by Milton Caniff. Before that, I was Air Force Flight Test Center Airman of the Month at Edwards, which includes our other lakebeds, such as Groom Lake, known to civilians as Area 51.s It was the time of my… Read more »
How do I reply to posts which are not posted, but have notices sent to me in email? I got a note from Oldvet, who wants to show I am not real. But I am. He should stop being so “secret”, because it is all public now. We had KY-8 keyers which we had to take care of ourselves, because the specialists were not allowed to see our radio systems. We also had two each ARC-27s, ARC-51, FM-622, VHF-101, Wilcox -807, 618T, and 32 ARR-52, and one ARC-89 along with the Tell-Tale Displays and other stuff. All our aircraft in… Read more »
Freaking Nazis in Miami detaining lawful 2A advocates. They should get sued for every cent for their unlawful detention and their ignorance of the very laws they’re supposed to be upholding and enforcing. Overzealous Ignorant Nazis, just what we don’t need more of in this country.
Abbie Hoffman said it all,”You take a risk when you do democracy”?
Florida police were put on notice that carry while fishin was legal several yeasago. No excuse for those arrests now!!
File lawsuit via 42 usc 1983.
Mike stillenwerk
Cofounder open carry. Org.
People! These are YOUR RIGHTS! The feelings of some dipstick that is too scared or becomes frazzled to look at a gun on your hip IF YOU ARE WITHIN YOUR RIGHTS, belongs home, under their bed, shuddering in fear and pissing their pants! REALIZE, RIGHTS TRUMP FEELINGS EVERY TIME ONLY IF YOU ARE WILLING TO FIGHT FOR YOUR RIGHTS! Unless your rights are THAT expendable, then shut the hell up, quit bitching and stay home under your bed! When you STAND YOUR GROUND against ANY AND ALL VIOLATIONS OF YOUR RIGHTS, and you ARE IN THE RIGHT, you apply yourself… Read more »
You betcha, we have far too many pussies in this country that are scared to stand up and be counted and most are COMMYCRATS!
@GR, I knew that there was a reason that I like your writings! I really enjoy real and actual trial level experiences.
People should always remember one of the first things Adolph Hitler did, and that was to disarm the Jewish People
The Jewish People were not armed. They were peaceful shopkeepers.
VOIDNESS OF LAW
https://www.rotlaw.com/legal-library/what-does-it-mean-when-a-law-is-void-for-vagueness-or-overbroad/
As are laws that are unconstitutional wholey void.
A Check with a lot of zeros !
The fishing event was announced well in advance, park rangers called police,
where were the park rangers, why did they not wait for police to arrive?
Park Rangers should know the law about open carry while fishing, etc.
Miami will pay big money for this.
Perhaps Florida Open Carry should have taken steps to arrange having a Florida Parks and Wildlife agent present to explain to other citizens as to what was occurring?
Shoot the fk ing pigs stright up, mess with our rights and die
It is people like you and statements like this that set this country aside from our Constitutional RIGHTS and also gives the Looney left more ammo to assert their whacked-out agenda. Clean up your character and evolve into the mature and responsible citizen the Constitution seeks to protect.
How old are you, Dennis, twelve? Have your mommy keep you away from her computer. Now go watch some cartoons on the TV and leave the comments for the adults.
@Capt. Shep C, If they shoot them, then they get a handful. If they sue, they can eliminate the entire department.
OK,so I hear the lefty, socialist, anti constitution, comments already. But let me remind you that carrying openly encourages the left. And more importantly when carrying openly you give up any tactical advantage over a bad guy that you may have. In fact, from my perspective when you carry openly you might as well paint a target on the back of your head. You’ll be the first to be shot, in case of an incident of any kind. Grow up! And for all you arm chair cowboys I’ll add. I shoot at least once, mostly twice a week between 200… Read more »
This United States openly carried for well over 200 years and didn’t do so bad. History will show when and where the concealed carry lifestyle reared it’s head.
HOW MANY OF YOU ARE AWARE THAT THE NRA HAS BEEN FIGHTING OPEN CARRY LAWS IN THE COURTS AND THE LEGISLATURES OF A NUMBER OF STATES, AND FOR QUITE A FEW YEARS?
They started back in 1923, and are still doing it:
https://newsblaze.com/business/legal/nra-loses-fake-open-carry-lawsuit-files-three-more-concealed-carry-lawsuits_131350/
Yeah, I knew that. Really sucks but the Communists have captured the NRA. I want to support them and the cause but you people that think it’s un-American to not join the NRA, look deep into their system of politics that allows the ones that run it, to pull in others like them. The votes don’t count for squat.
Much like in baseball when you sometimes have your player, “take a base” or get walked in order to bring up your “Clean-Up Better” to gain runs..
Sometimes in the halls of Justice you have to lose a battle or two in order tI position yourself to get the power to appeal to fight a much bigger battle!
In Illinois the State of Illinois banned open carry a few years ago and Illinois did not have a concealed carry license. In te Seventh Circuit the order was that none of the Illinois laws were constitutional as written and the court gave the State 180 days to pass a constitutional law. The state had the option, open carry or concealed carry or no law at all. So Illinois passed a shall issue law. Open carry is legal while hunting or on your own property. Eventually constitutional carry will come to Illinois, California and NJ. The NRA is not controlled… Read more »
Jim, the problem is that the NRA has been helping to write gun control legislation since 1923, including NFA ’24, GCA ’68, and the Lautenberg Amendment. Read the August 1968 American Rifleman. In it they bragged about wanting to prove that they were “reasonable”, willing to compromise. Well, they have been “compromising” our rights away all along. I was a member for over twenty years, until the screwed us by never alerting the membership to the Lautenberg Amendment until _after_ it became law. That was the end for me. Gun control bills and laws are what bring in their millions… Read more »
The NRA today is much different than it was in 1968. In 1968 most of the NRA leadership and members were concerned with target shooting and hunting.
They thought the government wanted fair laws that did not infringe on the Second Amendment.
But to blame the NRA in 2018 for what it was in 1970 is as silly as blaming Germans today for Adolph Hitler.
The ILA formed in 1975 as I recall. Neal Knox was about as hard line as you can be.
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The police officers broke the law, and violated their constitutional oath. Therefore, they were operating outside scope of employment. The higher ranking manager, who directed the officers to break the law, is also culpable. Their detention is illegal arrest. Instant lawsuit win! Identify all the law breakers. Keep records. None of the law enforcement violators can ever qualify for a National Security Clearance as a result. So they can’t be involved with any Federal Law Enforcement Task Force. Lawfare works both ways!
So, Ron, you ARE aware of INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY, correct?
SUE AND SET PRECEDENCE!
@Grig, I think that the remedy is in 42 USC 1983.
“Florida Statute 790.25(3), the (h) subsection of which allows openly carrying a gun by “person engaged in fishing, camping, or lawful hunting or going to or returning from a fishing, camping, or lawful hunting expedition.”
State law might require a license to hunt or fish but the homeless are ALWAYS camping.
In the Florida swamps, canals and lakes alligators, poisonous snakes and pirates are a constant threat.
In the cities, alleygators are a bigger threat.
So, in this case, 0muslim would have actually been correct if he had said, “the police acted stupidly”.
Although I agree with the right to open carry I personally prefer to carry concealed. I would rather not be a prime target when recognized as being armed. I want it to be a complete surprise when I have to defend myself.
Not the point, it was a protest. I carry concealed also.
If some thug was walking around armed, the police would fear approaching him because of backlash, so it’s easier to go after the public for the gun sleazier now. So to sum up, the government only wants the guns of law abiding citizens and to leave the bad guys alone. Sad but true. Today’s America thanks to socialism and the media.
So how would the officers know if the people detained were in fact ‘thugs’ or not? Do YOU have the ability to determine same?
If you don’t get yourself falsely arrested under color of authority, you don’t have a cause of action. So Step one: Save up money. Step two find a talent, energetic, aggressive lawyer capable of handling a case against the PD. Step three: With the lawyer’s guidance, peacefully get yourself arrested falsely under color of authority. Step four: Ten years of court, appeals, yada, yada, yada … retire with a healthy profit.
That’s bad legal advice. An arrest record will be with you forever no matter how proud you are of it. Try getting bonded with one, try getting a car loan or mortgage with a criminal arrest record. Try passing the NICS check with a firearm violation arrest record. I don’t think you understand the age old fact of life; There’s the way it ought to be and there’s the way it is. If you or you’re group want to change a law or statue spend you’re attorney fees that way. That’s what couurts are for. What about the other people… Read more »
Here in Kansas we’ve had constitutional carry for about three years. Police officer encounter people carrying openly and concealed , with or without a license. Officers use a thing called judgement. If there is a group of young men, that look edgy the officers will approach and ask questions. If it is several family groups they will approach and ask questions.
Depending on the answers there might be some restraint.
But most likely the officers and the armed citizens will share some friendly talk about poliotics, guns, hunting/fishing or some other topic such as teh damn hot weather.
Jack – It seems to me that you are inappropriately injecting your own opinion and morality into state statutes.I respect that you have served in law enforcement for so long and I want to believe that you mean well, but I believe you are way off base with this one. If one is sworn to uphold the law, then they should uphold ALL of the law, regardless of their personal feelings. One cannot claim to support the 2nd Amendment and also be willing to put the “feelings” of people above actual rights. I believe a better course of action would… Read more »
Paid for by the taxpayers. Thanks a lot, Wild Bill. Of course, you would claim you are against socialism…..
Florida Carry’s political ‘war chest’ is going to get a huge financial boost!
People don’t realize that open carry is permitted in these situations:
Prisoners in jail.
Thieves during assaults.
Robbers during bank heists.
The uninvited house guest in your bedroom at 3am.
Carrying at any other time is strictly forbidden.
Guns need to be mainstream again. The media has demonized gun owners and guns for far too long. People need to understand it is our right as US citizens to keep and bare arms.
@Ben, I agree. It was Congress that began demonizing firearms in 1934. We must repeal or find unconstitutional the NFA of 1934 and the GCA of 1968. That would be two big steps toward getting back to the Constitution.
MOST ABSOLUTLEY!
Be VERY careful when you ‘bare’ arms in the summer due to the chance of sunburn.
I agree, I still struggle with the idea that people scream about gun safety and at the same time don’t allow Eddy Eagle or similar courses to be taught in every school? The hypocrisy of the American left is infinite when it comes to the First and Second Amendments. We need to do more of these kind of events everywhere until the sight of a “lawful” gun carried in public becomes normalized in peoples minds. I don’t know if that will be possible over the short term but over the long term has to be done. My living conditions prevent… Read more »
Sounds like it was a little fishing trip and not a protest.Sounds like that is what the police made it out to be.Damn can’t you just go fishing anymore
This is why I’m So Look sick and f^@^@&# tired of hearing about the rank and file” being such saints, good people and all the other BS. They’re just as bad as the rest of them. Oh, 99% of ( enter designator here) are great folks, just doing their jobs and on and on and on. BS. Why don’t we start calling it like it is and say 90% of them should be wearing brown shirts or Black SS uniforms and 10% are good people who treat citizens with respect, use a little common sense and respect our constitution. I’d… Read more »
Bill’s comment nearly mirrors my life experience with the local police in two American cities I’ve lived in. I have held a true respect for authority since early age (I’m a seasoned senior citizen) but after working with and for these local police forces realized generally and regrettably that Bill has a valid position. I’m sorry to write this but feel obligated.
My experience parallels yours. We have to realize that this is Miami which pretty much equates to NYC.
Your chances of meeting a ‘reasonable’ police officer diminish greatly in a major city. Most rural cops are not of the Gestapo mindset. Big city cops led by gun control mayors and police chiefs are of the paramilitary mind set.
One also has to remember that there are two distinctly different Florida’s. The lower portion as we see here and saw also in Broward County is distinctly NYC ‘south.”
Then why don’t all of you above become police officers and show us all how it SHOULD be done? Put up or shut up.
You’re full of more shit than a Christmas Goose. In 33 years as a cop I delt with a thousand like you. Any sworn Lawenforcement officer in any political subdivision, incorporated municipality township or city has all police power and enforcement athuorty State and Federal government provides. All sworn police officers are also officers of the court’s. Don’t think so, break a law An find that out the hard way. I’ve seen my share of asshole cops in my time. That’s about 3% of the bunch. Cops come from the general population just like the rest of us. Just like… Read more »
The communist/muslem controlled MSM(PRESSTITUTES) propaganda stations will not cover this type of incident.
This type of TRUTH does not support their AGENDA of DISARMING LEGAL LAW ABIDING American CITIZENS.
“This will not end well for Miami Beach.” And the rulers of Miami Beach won’t care a whit … they will defend their actions to the last taxpayer dollar ….
Then it is up to the dumbasses that voted THESE dumbasses into office to step-up to the plate and drain their own swamp!
how come I did not hear about this protest at all!
I live here in South Florida and I would definitely have attended this event.
Get on Florida Carry’s website and email