-
Liberty Safe Controversy: Liberty Safe shared a safe combination with the FBI without a subpoena, drawing comparisons to Apple’s refusal to do the same.
-
Policy & Legal Action: After public backlash, Liberty Safe now requires subpoenas for combinations. However, they face a probe by Missouri’s Attorney General for potential deception.
-
Built-in Vulnerability: AmmoLand News found most digital safes have hard-coded backup (2) codes, making them potentially vulnerable regardless of manufacturer policies.
he🚨 Last week, a friend of ours was raided by the feds over J6, his name is Nathan Hughes and he’s from Fayetteville, Arkansas. Nate was raided by the FBI and arrested at gun point. His girlfriend (who just had a miscarriage) was held at gun point and put in handcuffs. The FBI… pic.twitter.com/LOpMQ28eUJ
— Hodgetwins (@hodgetwins) September 5, 2023
Liberty Safe has been at the center of controversy since turning over the combination to a customer’s safe without a court subpoena. The customer was accused of participating in the J6 protest at the U.S. Capitol. The FBI had a search warrant, but Liberty Safes was not required to turn over the combination to law enforcement.
“On August 30, 2023, Liberty Safe was contacted by the FBI requesting the access code to the safe of an individual for whom they had a warrant to search their property. Our company protocol is to provide access codes to law enforcement if a warrant grants them access to a property. After receiving the request, we received proof of the valid warrant, and only then did we provide them with an access code. Liberty Safe had no knowledge of any of the details surrounding the investigation at the time,” the company wrote on social media as the backlash grew.
Liberty Safes received extreme backlash over giving out a customer’s combination to law enforcement authorities. Apple was in a similar situation after the FBI requested access to a terrorist’s iPhone. The tech giant handled the situation differently and refused to turn over access to the phone, citing its customer privacy policy.
Liberty Safes changed its policy after the internet uproar. The company said it would require a subpoena before handing any combinations over to law enforcement. This move isn’t enough for some, like Missouri Attorney General Andrew Bailey, who has opened a probe into the company for potential deception.
“In an era where the federal government weaponizes our national security apparatus against political opponents, the last thing we need is for a private company to sell out its fellow Americans under pressure from federal bureaucrats,” Bailey said. “I am using every tool at my disposal to protect the rights of all Missourians. That’s why my office is opening this investigation to ensure Liberty Safe is not deceiving its customers in its terms of service.”
— Liberty Safe (@libertysafeinc) September 7, 2023
The company now provides a website where customers can remove the backup locking code from the Liberty Safe data. Many question why the company doesn’t ship out safes without a backup code. AmmoLand News contacted several experienced locksmiths and safe experts and discovered that the codes are hard coded into the digital locking mechanisms, meaning they cannot be removed.
AmmoLand News was informed that almost all safe manufacturers use locking mechanisms from one of a few companies. That revelation means that the vulnerability of a built-in backup code isn’t limited to Liberty Safes. It means that almost all digital safes have the same flaw. It also means that just because your manufacturer doesn’t keep the codes or deletes the code from their system, the danger is removed.
The actual lock manufacturers still have the backup codes. Going to a mechanical lock is the only way to be truly safe. If you must use a digital locking mechanism, the best way to keep your belongings safe is to acquire a new digital lock and have a locksmith install it on your safe. That could be costly, so another cheaper solution, albeit imperfect, is to remove the serial number from your safe and destroy any paperwork containing the serial number. However, the latter is not ideal if you purchased the safe directly from the manufacturer.
“The only way to guarantee no one will get access to your safe combo from the safe manufacturer is to remove the serial numbers from your safe and your paperwork. Change the factory code yourself or hire a locksmith to do it,” said Tony Simon, a 30-year locksmith and founder of Diversity Shoot. “I also suggest safes with a mechanical dial over an electronic safe. Mechanical safes only use one combination. I suggest you change it yourself or hire a locksmith to change it for you.”
With an overbearing government and a need for security, gun owners must take security seriously. If safe company does not maintain a list of override codes it does not mean a government agent or criminal could not get the override code.
About John Crump
John Crump is an NRA instructor and a constitutional activist; he has written about firearms, interviewed people from all walks of life, and read the Constitution. John lives in Northern Virginia with his wife and sons and can be followed on Twitter at @crumpyss, or at www.crumpy.com.
I’ve been an Ammoland reader for many years. This is my first post. I have been a locksmith / safe tech for 37 years. There is a lot of false info floating around about the electronic locks on Liberty safes, and others. First, it’s not true that there is a hidden code that is “hard-wired” and cannot be removed. All codes can be removed if you know the process, or have a tool to do so. I’ll explain. The current lock used by Liberty is the Securam Safelogic. It has the ability to simultaneously store two codes…a “manager” code and… Read more »
That was a helpful post !
Sure is valuable information. Even though it doesn’t really apply to me. My safe is a Diebold that used to be an automatic teller. With a four digit combination that requires a key to even be able to turn the dial. One inch thick solid steel, with a high temp coating to defeat cutting torches. One could still grind off the coating and then torch in, but that would be one long and dirty job. Or blow it open with explosives, but I doubt even the feds would try that! 🙂 This is how we can stay ahead of the… Read more »
“even with the almost infinite resources that they steal from us” Not really…
Correct. I used the word “almost”, because; although the issuing authority can create any amount of fiat currency that they want, out of nothing and at no cost, it only has the value that people perceive it to have. As they print ever more and more, in a rising exponential curve, the ‘value’ of their fiat currency declines. When it gets near zero, people stop accepting it, and the issuing authority goes into the dustbin of history. This is what “inflation” is. As the supply of fiat currency inflates, its value declines. Prices don’t actually go up, its the perceived… Read more »
It just occured to me that safcrkr sounds a whole lot like the locksmith that I got my information from 30 years back. You wouldn’t happen to hail from North Dakota would you Safcrkr? 🙂
No. I’ve hunted in N. Dakota, but never lived there. I’m from Wisconsin. I never “torch” a safe, but I’ve seen some that were torched by thieves. Contents all burned to heck. I use drills & borescopes….finesse not force. Sometimes just a borescope and bent piece of wire inserted into wiring access through door (another reason to dislike electronic locks!). Diebolds are good safes, I’ve opened a few. Much tougher nut to crack than a typical gun safe, which is technically called a RSC (residential security container).
That is exactly how I met my locksmith friend from NoDak back in the day. I had acquired the Diebold teller machine when the bank that owned it could no longer get it open. They replaced it with a new one, and the construction company I worked for at the time was hired to move the old one one off and replace it with their new one. I offered them a little more than the scrap price, and so I ended up with a bill of sale and the keys to the old one. I had it in mind to… Read more »
Modern technology has changed things. It has made my life much easier. Back in the day, I had a borescope that was rigid, 8-12″ long, and looked like an otoscope an ear doctor might use. It had a mirror attachment that fit over the end, to see 90 degrees off to the side. That mirror gizmo never did work very well. Today I have video cameras on flexible wands that plug into laptops, tablets, smart phones. I have one as small as 3.5mm, and I have a 5mm with dual cameras, one sees straight ahead and the other looks 90… Read more »
That’s how I do gunsmithing jobs these days too. Part time to feed the same addiction. 🙂 Few of the new breed are able to fit a piece of walnut to a barreled action any more. Mostly they can just replace parts. In my day we called those “armorers”. Those that know how to replace gun parts, but not how to make gun parts. That autodialer sure sounds like an interesting machine. It must have a tiny motor that can get in through the hole to drive the dial, yes? Or maybe a flex shaft and the motor stays outside… Read more »
The auto dialer stands off the door over the dial on three “legs” with strong magnets as “feet”. It does have a flexible componant. It attaches to the dial in in one of two manners. One has a part that gets drilled and tapped directly into the center of the dial. There is a steel centering tool for accuracy. The other, newer method, uses a clamp that fits over the dial. Drilling accurately freehand is a skill you learn through practice. Patience is mandatory. There’s that old phrase “measure twice, cut once” used by carpenters. Locksmiths measure 5 tiomes, drill… Read more »
Hmm… I thought I answered this a few days ago. Anyway… The motor (called a step motor) stands off the door on 3 “legs” with strong magnets for “feet”. The original version, the ITL1000, which I have and purchased way back in 1990, has an attachment that gets drilled & tapped into the center of the dial, and there is a flexible shaft connecting it to the motor. It’s controlled by a small “computer” in a briefcase, which is user programmable (you absolutely must know how these locks operate to program it correctly, it’s not for amateurs). Newer versions use… Read more »
I hope you are able to feed your addiction for a long time.
Me, too! I hope safcrkr will keep posting this very valuable info for many years to come. That autodialer that can work from the outside sure would have been the business 30 years ago. Then I wouldn’t have even had that little hole to weld up afterwards. That machine would also be pretty scary for us manual lock lovers… IF it didn’t require so much expertise to use. The thieves would have to know exactly which type of lock they’re working on and exactly what order the extra spins have to be in, and so forth. The only thieves I… Read more »
Th biggest downside to the autodialer is it does take a lot of time to work. Up to 36 hours is in the manufacturers info. I’ve never had it take that long. Quickest it ever worked was about 3 hours (got lucky). Longest was about 24 hours. No thief is going to sit in your house for 24 hours (or even 3), waiting on an autodialer to open your gun safe. There are a theorectical 1 million possible combinations in a dial lock with 100 number dial and 3 number combo…100 x 100 x 100. However, about 20% of them… Read more »
Can a mechanical dial lock be put on a safe that has an Elock? I have three safes with Elocks. I think they are all Cannon, and this would be nice to know because now you have me concerned with the “regular basis because of lock failure” in your statement.
Older Cannons, yes. I have an older Cannon made safe from 1990s, says “American Eagle” in gold on the front. These are decent safes and can have a dial lock installed very easily (mine actualy came with it, back in 1998 when I bought it new). Newer Cannon safes, such as the Safari & Scout series, are made less expensively and intended for mass sales at big box stores at lower, competitive price points. No, these cheaper models cannot be fitted with dial locks. You’re stuck with that crappy e-lock. If your Cannon safe’s keypad has a logo with “S&G”… Read more »
Some electronic locks are hard coded.
Example? I’m always willing to learn something new…
I have 2 Liberty safes, both have mechanical locks. Both have been registered through Liberty’s customer warranty program. What’s to keep them from releasing the combination if the feds come asking?
Locks only protect against honest people. Criminals (and governments) will find a way to defeat your lock.
The AR in your hands is what stops criminals attempting to open your safe.
Unless you are far more competent and confident with your AR than I am, and you do not care to continue breathing – I suggest not using it to guard against the feds. For that you need a lawyer.
OR be willing to see how many of them you can take with you to the promised land. I’m reminded of these words to Why The Banksters Keep Us Dumb.. Did you ever get the feelin’ as your stairin’ at the ceilin’ That this game of life we play ain’t fair? Seems as fast as we can make it there’s a hand that grabs and takes it Till they plant us in a grave somewhere Like a rodent on a treadmill, we keep pushin’ for it up hill But we never seem to get to far Well if you think… Read more »
That is how Randy Weaver was able to stay free(and alive up til last year…) today. Not by “bending the knee” and showing his belly to the feds, but by returning fire, forting up, and then drawing mass attention to his plight.
In the end, he was found not guilty and cost the feds 3.2 million ‘dollars’, courtesy of the long suffering US taxpayer.
There is a lesson to be learned there, IMO.
Change the combination.
The more popular Sargent and Greenleaf locks can be reset.
Consider yourself lucky to have manual locks. Change the combinations. A manual dial lock needs an occasional resetting of the tumblers anyway as a good maintenance procedure. There can be no “hidden” codes in a manbual dial lock. You can also pick your own numbers, with one caveat. 3rd number should not be between 90-25.
There is excellent advice pertinent to me! I haven’t reset the combo on my Diebold since the first time 30 years ago. I’m going to go do that right now!
Thanks for the kick in the rear! I’ll follow the 3rd number advice, too, but why the restriction to avoid the numbers around zero/100?
That’s called “theforbidden zone” by locksmiths. If the third number is relatively close to the “drop in’ point of ~ 7, the lock can jam. “Drop in” is where the lever nose falls into the notch in the cam attached to the dial when tumblers are aligned properly. To be on the safe side, setting the third combo number at least 10 numbers either side of the drop-in at 7 is recommended….most of us usea15 number cushion. I have seen it happen by someone resetting their own and not knowing this. Watch a youtube on how the S&G 6730 works.
“said Tony Simon, a 30-year locksmith and founder of Diversity Shoot. “I also suggest safes with a mechanical dial over an electronic safe. Mechanical safes only use one combination. I suggest you change it yourself or hire a locksmith to change it for you.” As luck would have it, this is the same advice given to me by another locksmith, from North Dakota, 30 something years ago. To change the combination myself, to something that only I know. To trust no one with the keys to one’s whole life, no matter how close they might be. Two psychotic ex-wives later,… Read more »
You didn’t realize they were psychotic until you married them ?
I wish I could upvote your comment 100 times!
In the second case, I even knew it beforehand! But I had just discovered Ki, and thought that I could do anything! I was wrong…
🙂
That was what happened the first time around. The second one was all my own fault. There is just no accounting for animal attraction. It makes no sense.
But what the hell, I survived, and I even learned something. It’s all good.
Never took 2 times for me , one and done and have never lived with another women again after the first divorce. 35 years have passed now and I hunt and fish and there is no bitching about it .
I’m now the same. Endeavoring to not be the one from the old joke about “Mankind never making the same mistake twice, it’s usually 3 times or more….” Now I’m trying to make it ‘only’ twice. Like the other old saw, “Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.” Shame on me, indeed. The second time I knew better, but yet I did it anyway. What a fool. Letting my little head do the thinking for my big head. 🙂 But no more. It might take a beating to pound things into my thick old skull,… Read more »
That’s how I got my ex wife was letting my little head do the thinking . She educated me so I never made that mistake again . Live and learn !
Then there is the saying…Birds of a feather fly together. LOL!
It’s possible your psycho filter was out of symmetry with the environment!
That was the first time. The second time my eyes were wide open, and I did it anyway. We humans are stupid! At least some of the time. “Beam me up, Scotty. There’s no intelligent life here” -the Late, Great, Jim Trafficant. Ended every one minute speech(the only time they’d let him speak) with it. 20 years in Congress, and one minute/day was his limit. By the end he’d just shortened it to; “Beam me up…” and walk off 🙂 I went looking for one of his speeches but they’ve been flushed down the memory hole. There are lots of… Read more »
Read this…I think the progs are winning. Megadeath: the global conspiracy to kill every living thing until we submit.
That’s been the “Global Warming” con from the beginning. But I think they’re losing, not winning. Note how they cannot even say the term anymore, but have now had to change it to “climate change”, once the data hidden for so long by Phil Jones in the UK clearly showed that the world is cooling, and not warming. So, true to their policy of constant lies, they just reworded it(perhaps it’s the Tower of Babel story over again??) to “climate change”. No chance they’ll get caught sticky fingered this time around. The climate is always changing, and has been for… Read more »
You can’t trust any of these companies. Between this, credit cards and triggers they are all on the wrong side. Don’t be surprised when y’all find out many other companies are just giving away stuff without proper cause.
Definitely!
They would have gotten into that safe with our without the combination but it would have have cost them time and labor. Then again, we the people pay for that so what do they care!
So Liberty Safes aren’t really safe. This sets a bad precedent for the company. Maybe they can hire Dylan Mulvaney???
I agree that the “parent organization” of Liberty Safe” needs to be held accountable for retaining and distributing PRIVATE INFORMATION of a THIRD PARTY without LEGAL AUTHORITY.
How about the “charge card” companies and banks that give out PRIVATE information ?
I guess the FBI could have just taken a chop saw to it.
the brown shirts are at it again, targeting opponents of the regime.
was the safe listed in the warrant?
can liberty be held accountable for providing the code without permission of owner or subpoena?
I think that last question may be challenged in court. If I were an attorney, I would take it pro bono until the case is won and we would both be enjoying a wonderful payday which is what I predict will happen.
I had my combo changed last friday by a locksmith authorized by Liberty Safe. I mailed them the bill. Can’t wait to see what happens.
I predict that they won’t pay your just bill… but that you’ll be glad that you did anyway!
🙂
I think at best I might get a discount coupon towards the purchase of another Liberty safe and I have to use it within 3 months, if that.
Agreed. If even that. Multinationals are all the same. Greed is their only motive. Customer service is way down their list. Somewhere under getting bitten by vampire bats!
I have a name for the elite multinationals scum. PSYCHOPATHIC CONTROL FREAK PARASITES.
And which court would that be? Do you really still obey the brainwashing and indoctrination that you can find any justice in the completely corrupted legal system?!?!
That’s what most do. Just keep on playing in the rigged casino. But at least two of us don’t. More would be better, but two is enough.
🙂
Hi Randy!
Did locksmith record the new combo? When liberty paid to replace my lock, smith offered to register new combo with them. I figure risk of me passing away and kids needing to get in is considerably higher than risk of feds raiding my home. Since they’d just cut it open – my risk is not really increased. It’s just a firebox to protect a couple ancient items and distract thieves if they even find it. Unfortunately most safes, including liberty’s are awfully insecure. Have seen video of brute force opening in well under a minute, using only readily available hand… Read more »
Too much like work.
Why would they bother to physically crack it, when they have the combination on speeddial?
lt taught many people that NO ONE is going to Iook out for you except for YOU! l already knew that, so, in effect, l didn’t reaIIy Iearn anything. l never had one of their not-so “safes”.
Btw, remember when some govt agency or LE agency wanted someone’s iPhone password a few years ago and Apple told them to get bent? I bet Apple now sends the govt. your password and imei number as soon as you buy the phone.
Even some mechanical safes have combinations that are stored by the company that manufactured them. I used to work for a company that bought a small fireproof safe with a mechanical dial lock intended for the storage of software CDs. It was the good idea fairy in action, and no one ever used it. Years after it was bought, it was decided to use it for other purposes. However, no one could find the paperwork with a combination. One of my coworkers had to go through the process to get the combination from the manufacturer. The moral of the story… Read more »
Which of the brain trusts at TTAG implemented the red postings “You are posting too fast. slow down.” and “Input is too short” What are the criteria??? Please post, quantify. Am I typing too fast for your Nazi First Amendment Public School Educated Czar to read the comment. I’ll type slower. Just tell me how fast they can read.
How did the Freakin’ Buncha Idiots know he had a Liberty safe?
I just sent an e-mail to the Hodge twins, and attached several of my papers for them to read and use, if they’re really serious about helping Nathan Hughes beat the phony charges against him. Anybody who knows how to get in touch with him, should tell him about his UNIVERSAL Get Out Of Jail For Free Card! If someone can provide me with that contact info, I will do it myself!! Is Someone Shopping Around For a Friendly Judge?!?! Yes, it’s 100% true, that LIEyers will sometimes try to “shop around” for a judge or Circuit to hear their… Read more »
I just bought a Winchester safe from my nephew. He has the combination, but I trust him, but not the Fed’s
My safes have a backup security system that is not built into them.
“The company now provides a website where customers can remove the backup locking code from the Liberty Safe data.”
As Pat Benatar said, “It’s a little, a little too late!”
https://youtu.be/84TB8C50nos?si=RuryyyVu90V74umO
That should say: “The company now provides a website where they claim that customers can remove the backup locking code from the Liberty Safe data.”
I think we all know about corporations and their claims. Easy enough to set up a website where the sheeple can delete something to make themselves feel better. Meanwhile, the company’s 50 backup copies are nice and secure elsewhere.
Excellent point, Knute Knute!
I thought you might like that one little change… 🙂
Edit:
…”A little too little, a little too late.”
I don’t think it is, Ope.
It’s easier, and more certain, to just delete it from the lock yourself. If you have purchased a Liberty safe recently (last 8-10 years) that has the lock made by Securam, youtube video in link below shows how easy it is. Tools needed – phillips head screwdriver to remove door panel screws, and a common paperclip to reset lock back to factory defaults. Youtube video I have linked shows how. No need to remove lock from door, as it is shown in video. “Reset” hole will be under a blue sticker, upper right side corner of the lock, above the… Read more »
I’ve always liked Pat Benatar. I’m esp. partial to “Payin’ The Cost To Be The Boss”. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pBvRDt1E-X8 The lyrics remind me of the way I parted from my second ex-wife… If you don’t like what I’m doin’ Just pick up your things and walk You gotta be crazy baby You must be outta your mind As long as I’m payin’ the bills I’m payin’ the cost to be the boss And besides all that it was written by B.B. King, one of my favorites, along with Stevie Ray Vaughan. I got to go on a drunk with BB in Billings… Read more »
Fuck Liberty (apparently a new word for communism), safes.
I am in the hunt for a new safe. It won’t be a liberty.
Buy a Snap Safe. According to the company Email I received a few days ago. Snap Safe does not have a backdoor combination to it’s products.
From the readings I have done, the manufacturers of electronic safes retain a “master code” for their locks.
It’s even worse than that. The maker of the safe doesn’t actually make the electronic lock, they just buy them from a 3rd party supplier. It’s that 3rd party that burns the so-called “managers code” into the lock. This makes Backfire Jim’s second question in this video: https://youtu.be/RXj9hFzOmTY?si=1kmhNb2shUjoNLTv&t=655 totally irrelevant. Liberty safe can honestly make the claim that they didn’t build any back door access into their safes. Instead they had SecuRam do it for them. They’ll just manage to ‘forget’ about the second part. Lies of omission are a lot easier to get away with than lies of commission.… Read more »
Just checking to see if SecuRam is the disallowed word.
“managers code” maybe?
“Lies of omission are a lot easier to get away with than lies of commission?
Had a snap safe. Lock crapped out. Not knowing what I was doing and trying to do minimal damage to the lockbox, once I’d gathered tools it took about 10-15 seconds to open. Watching “lockpick lawyer” online, these products can be opened faster and with no evidence of having been opened even faster by his five year old.
Does no good to have combo secure if device is that easy to defeat.
According to any corporation they don’t violate their customers’ trust… but yet they do. As it turns out, ad copy is not a sworn statement, so they can make any claims they want without consequence.
Just FYI, people lie a lot, and corporations lie even more.
This is a mute point other than Liberty safe selling out it customers. The reality is the feds will just cut the safe open. The answer is to fill every nook and extra cranny of the safe with gun powder and tannerite and sit back and watch the fun.
Liberty Safes, a misnomer to start with, Is supporting domestic enemies.
How come no mention of liberal safe owners giving max donations to liberal democrat anti-gun people ??
My Fort Knox is a S&G dial. My Am Sec is a push button. both the same combo’s. I do like the S&G dial, you have to get the sequence of spins correct. The downfall, somedays, I can’t get in it.. brain farts. I’ve been in the locksmith industry when I was a teenager. Trained by two different locksmiths who decades later are still my good friends. They are safe trained. Honestly, it doesn’t take much to get any of them open. There are maps on where to drill on the face, if you have a dial, you can listen… Read more »
“Listen to them with a stethoscope” ? Um, no. not on a modern lock like the S&G & LaGard group 2 combination locks you can’t. That’s just another “hollyweird” myth, like the 6-gun that never needs reloading and the “silencer” that goes “phffftt”. Manipulating a modern safe lock open is possible, but a deaf person can do it. It’s not done by sound at all, but by visually noting differences in dial by sight & by “feel”.
Totally agree with everything else you said.
Did Nathan Hughes express desire to have his safe torched/drilled/grinder cut open instead of he or Liberty facilitating the opening?? If access to the safe was included in the warrant, the safe was going to be opened regardless of method. Locks/safes are illusions of security, keeping children and the terminally stupid out. Admittedly, there is the question if Alphabet Boys are included therein, but even they would have eventually gotten in.
Should have been his choice whether it was destroyed or not. Too late for me – too many pro-rights posts out there. However for anyone not yet on assorted federal watch-lists – I think it best to not be on any list of safe owners either. It’s only a matter of time before ARs are banned – likely by redefinition as machine guns (lol). Feds would seek lists of safe owners, using list to “justify” warrants as majority of safe owners likely own an AR as well. Hate becoming so paranoid, but current 1984 government mandates paranoia. They really are… Read more »
I get it, folks at Liberty got scared. But unless Pro-2A becomes united across all 2A fronts, then losing the battle is not a question of if, but when.
Perhaps this incident will bring pushback against electronic locks in general. I do not trust them myself Liberty and other manufacturers would be wise to return mechanical locks to the marketplace.
I have also learned that Liberty Safe generally will not release the backup code to a verifired safe owner when the electronic code fitted has been lost. The owner is forced to hire a locksmith at considerable expense. Good customer service would dictate the verified owner of the safe have access to this information direct from Liberty.
I hate that this happened to Nathan Hughes. But the result is a learning process that we the people must know. I’m grateful for that.
Never buying a liberty safe. AND, now, more importantly than the fire rating is if the safe company I’m purchasing from has a back door for the communists to exploit.
Details matter.
Trust no one. l never owned a Iiberty safe, never wiII.
What I want to know is this…what kind of warrant for a guy who 2 1/2 years ago was at a protest in DC was issued so that they could search his safe? Someone in the Federal Baby Incinerators needs to read the 4th amendment CLOSELY. We need to start filling our torches with oil and sharpening our pitchforks…expect things to start getting REAL in the near future. The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by… Read more »
There are many, many layers to all of this, but the bottom line is that when you expose someone’s crimes, they are supposed to back off, but the criminality runs so damn deep now, that doesn’t work! Each criminal in the world backs up the other criminals. Epstein’s crimes were covered up by other criminals, as best they could. The crimes of the banksters are covered up by the criminals in the various governmental agencies. No one who is making a profit off of a crime of any kind, can be counted upon to do anything to reduce that crime.… Read more »
This is the same horrid state that every resident of the world has had to live through when the global hegemon they’ve been familar with their whole lives, goes down history’s dustbin in the big flush. It brings on tough times and lots of gnashing of teeth… but if the Persians and the Greeks and the Romans and the Spanish and the Brits all managed to live through it, I figure we Americans can too. But I’m ever the incurable optimist! And we have AR-15s to help us through the coming hard times that those others lacked. I figure that… Read more »
Class action lawsuit , sue Liberty safes for the value of the safe and return shipping cost as they have now become communist sympathizers and joined the Marxist ranks .
Did Nathan Hughes express desire to have his safe torched/drilled/grinder cut open instead of he or Liberty facilitating the opening?? If access to the safe was included in the warrant, the safe was going to be opened regardless of method. Locks/safes are illusions of security, keeping children and the terminally stupid out…..admittedly, there is the question if Alphabet Boys are included therein, but even they would have eventually gotten in.
I wouldn’t get too worked up over this, really. If the government has a search warrant they can cut open the safe if need be. It would be easy. They are getting in either way. By Liberty giving the gov the backup code they saved the homeowner money. But I do think that should be the homeowner’s decision.
The FBI had a SEARCH WARRANT. They were going to open that safe one way or another. So, either they get the combination and you get your safe back(change the combination), OR, they slice the top off and you get your (now a convertible) safe back. And Liberty will be happy to sell you a new one. Does everything have to be about outrage?
So you don’t mind giving up your Constitutional Rights ?
Read more: https://www.ammoland.com/2023/09/liberty-safe-scandal-and-what-it-taught-gun-owners/#ixzz8DNZzlPIO
Under Creative Commons License: Attribution
Follow us: @Ammoland on Twitter | Ammoland on Facebook
Liberty Safes changed its policy after the internet uproar. The company said it would require a subpoena before handing any combinations over to law enforcement.
You are making a distinction without a real difference. The FBI could have made a phone call and gotten a subpoena from the same judge who issued the warrant in about 30 seconds.
A point I have seen brought up elsewhere that seems to have merit, is that once you pay for the safe and take delivery of it, the manufacturer no longer owns it and has no right or obligation to share information about it with anyone. I concur with this line of thought.
You completely miss the point. It is not the decision of Liberty Safe whether or how the Gestapo gets in that safe. That decision belongs only to the actual owner. If he opens it or if he refuses and they cut it open that is no one’s decision except his.
You are 100% correct. Liberty saved the homeowner money. Still, it should be the homeowner’s decision. So while Liberty did nothing that changed the outcome, it should have been the homeowner’s decision.
The warrant didn’t include the safe!
He needs to sue Liberty for the value of the safe and the return shipping cost . Send it back for a full refund . FLS they are communist sympathizers now and have joined the Marxist ranks
How many weeks do you think the Feds will spend on my “safe” before they realize it’s really a 20 ton chunk of solid steel made to look like a safe?
Derp, warrant was for the property and anything on or in it.
That’s how they work.
Don’t be stupid.