In January of 2023, a Florida federal district Court restored the right to keep and bear arms on United States Postal Service (USPS) property. The court ruled a statute banning the possession of guns on USPS property, dating from 1972, was unconstitutional under the Second Amendment. Currently, the ruling only applies to the individual case in Florida. The USPS has issued a statement aimed at employees, stating the USPS policy has not changed. From the USPS:
A recent Florida district court decision is being misreported or may be misinterpreted as holding that the Postal Service’s ban on carrying firearms — either openly or concealed, or storing them on USPS property — is unconstitutional.
In fact, the case dealt with a different federal statute and does not involve the Postal Service’s regulation. Therefore, it does not change the organization’s policy.
Employees are reminded that carrying or storing firearms, other dangerous or deadly weapons, or explosives — either openly or concealed — on USPS property is prohibited and can result in discipline up to and including removal from the Postal Service, as well as potential prosecution.
An outlet dealing with the federal government, focusing on issues which matter the most to “federal agency managers, policy makers and contractors,” quotes USPS spokesperson Jim McKean. From the Federal News Network:
“The Postal Service regulates its facilities for the safety, economy, and convenience of customers and employees engaged in postal business nationwide. One Postal Service regulation in this regard prohibits the possession or storage of firearms on real property under the charge and control of the Postal Service, and that regulation was upheld by a federal court of appeals in 2015,” McKean said. “We are evaluating the interplay between our regulation and the recent interpretation of the broader federal criminal statute and determining the appropriate next steps.”
The case that spokesperson McKean referred to is Bonidy v. USPS. The case was decided in the Tenth Circuit during the period when several circuits were actively working to gut the Second Amendment. Their preferred method was to limit the Heller and McDonald decisions as applying only in the home and as being subject to “intermediate scrutiny.” From the Tenth Circuit case, Bonidy v. USPS at Courtlistener
We have jurisdiction under 28 U.S.C. § 1291 and conclude that the regulation is constitutional as to all USPS property at issue in this case, including the Avon Post Office parking lot, because the Second Amendment right to bear arms has not been extended to “government buildings.” Government buildings, in this context, includes the government owned parking lot connected to the U.S. Post Office. Alternatively, even if we were to conclude that the parking lot did not qualify as a “government building,” we would uphold this regulation as constitutional as applied to the parking lot under independent intermediate scrutiny.
The Supreme Court refused to grant a writ of certiorari in the case. This correspondent wrote of it at the time. From Gun Watch March 22, 2016:
It is easy to under stand why Second Amendment supporters on the Court would not want to hear this case at this time. Antonin Scalia is dead. There are now only 3 justices on the Court who can reasonably be counted on to uphold the Second Amendment. They do not want to hear a Second Amendment case that could be used to gut the Amendment.
We do not know who voted to hear the case or not. But I am not surprised that the Court decided not to hear this case.
With only eight justices on the Supreme Court, it was reasonable not to hear the post office case.
Consider the incredible events that have occurred since March of 2016. Donald Trump was elected President. He nominated and appointed three new justices to the Supreme Court to replace Scalia, Kennedy, and Ginsburg. The logjam of dedicated Progressive judges on the Supreme Court was broken. For the first time in seventy years, there exists an arguably originalist and textualist majority on the Supreme Court, judges who claim to interpret the Constitution as it was written, not as they wish to use it to advance Progressive policy.
The Bruen decision on the Second Amendment, published on June 22, 2022, told the Circuit courts their attempts to gut the Second Amendment were in error. Justice Clarence Thomas wrote a clear, easy-to-understand decision explaining what the Second Amendment means what it meant when it was adopted. It is not the business of the Supreme Court to change the meaning, but to enforce the meaning as adopted. To this end, restrictions on the rights protected by the Second Amendment are only legitimate if they were common and accepted at the time the Second Amendment was ratified. Fourteenth Amendment considerations do not come into play for federal laws and regulations.
There were no federal restrictions on carrying weapons in post offices until 1972. Federal restrictions on carrying guns in post offices are obviously unconstitutional, as Judge Mizelle found.
Restrictions on federal employees are different. They may be controlled by labor law and union contracts.
About Dean Weingarten:
Dean Weingarten has been a peace officer, a military officer, was on the University of Wisconsin Pistol Team for four years, and was first certified to teach firearms safety in 1973. He taught the Arizona concealed carry course for fifteen years until the goal of Constitutional Carry was attained. He has degrees in meteorology and mining engineering, and retired from the Department of Defense after a 30 year career in Army Research, Development, Testing, and Evaluation.
They think government property is exempt from the bill of rights. Do you need to know anymore about them? Maybe they need guantanamo.
a place where there are no rights , could put the gallows there
That IS kind of ironic, isn’t it?
Wow maybe you could tell us what the judeo masonic jews did to you to cause you to hate them so much, at least then we might understand your hate even tho we do not agree with you. Try to leave your hate out of your Post-Standard we might listen more.
he does not understand it was the masons that enshrined our rights in constitution….they wanted to go further but did not have the votes …..so many people mix the masons with illuminaughty not the same…and look at the smoke screan that has formed around the people pushing for one world order
In 1972 I was pretty young and unable to vote. Didn’t some idiot postal worker go to work and shoot up a bunch of his/her fellow employees and shortly after this change was made and the term GOING POSTAL, come into play? In addition, I should be able to carry in a bank too and that is why I use the ATM machine but the law probably includes the bank property too just like the USPS. Oregoneistan where if they have a sign that says no guns allowed and you are caught carrying concealed with a permit it is now… Read more »
what they don’t know, they don’t know.
and what they don’t know is massive. but they will soon find out.
There is no federal law prohibiting the carrying of firearms in banks. You are not prohibited in that regard.
> According to the law center database, Montana is the only state that has a specific law at the nexus of concealed weapons and banks.
Ok, you may be correct. I know in Oregoneistan it is against the law. I can drive up to an ATM or a drive up window. I just checked the web. It wouldn’t let me copy and paste it.
Thanks for the info. Your comment confirms just how much Oregun has become Oregoneistan.
Until at most a yeaer or wo ago, in Oregon they mandate no gun signs to have certain form and physicalplacement to be lawfully binding. Thus one could ignore the yard decorations at malls and stores that are NOT compliant. Thi includes the cartoon outline of a Glock in a red circle with slash aling the lowere margin of the entry door, where it also says you have to wear a shirt, can’t have a mask on 9nuless its a WooFlew mug nappie), etc. That is how the young man who stipped the Clackaas Towne Centre Mall shooting (the same… Read more »
I remember people challenging that on the basis that the sign did not meet requirements and winning. Try and find the required sign today. I can’t. You would think that if a law were made that you can have gun free zones if it were posted as such that if the sign had to have a certain look that it would be shown, posted or listed as the required sign. I am almost certain that our leftist marxist government has most likely made a new law that says the glock with the circle and line is good enough. After all,… Read more »
Even in Texas that circle/slash sign is valid for someone carrying under constitutional-carry. Need compliant 30.06 and 30.07 signs for LTC holders. This is paying a tax and carrying a permit for a right – but still a good choice for an individual unwilling to risk prison on principle. Besides I’ve heard from many that LTC acts as get-out-of-tickets card…
I’ll carry where and when I feel the need. If there is a metal detector I don’t feel the need to be in the place.
So what is that Montana law?
Here in Texas, I’ve found the gun on hip of a fellow customer to serve as good conversation source.
Young man waiting in line in lobby at Wells Fargo gave me hope that Texas will retain our common sense. Not only does he open carry, he convinced his previously hoplophobic mother to learn to shoot and keep a home-defense tool.
I had a similar experience in Arizona while visiting my parents. Went into a Wells Fargo to do some banking and was followed in by a guy with a Glock in a belt holster. I mentioned to the bank manager that it was, for me, an unusual sight and I was somewhat surprised that no one seemed concerned. His response was, this is Arizona and we’re a second amendment state. As it should be.
I carry in my local branches of a state chartered bank here in AZ. Many folks do. There are no signs preventing it, no laws preventing it and as this is a small bank we know the folks to include the corporate officers. A VP thanked me when I told him the wife and I always carry both in the bank and when we hit the ATM. Different culture up here in Northern AZ.
Sounds like home….another place long in the past…shooting cans on the beach with my grandfather …Massachusetts was once like that
I open carry in banks in Mississippi.
HLB
There is no law prohibiting you from carrying in a bank. It’s a banks prerogative to allow for carry within the bank.
If you can’t do that in communist Oregon, then the people of Oregon voted to be slaughtered. Nothing more.
Keep voting Democrat.
What amazes me is that there are bound to be millions of Democrat gun owners, yet they will still vote for someone that supports taking their guns away. Go figure.
Well, let’s be honest here, if they were smart they wouldn’t be Democrats.
Laws are made and passed without the vote of the people which you should know. I will leave voting democrat up to you. I vote TRUMP.
there was a postal strike in 1970 lots of changes at post office, people coming back from Vietnam lots of social upheaval ….a fired postal worker with ptsd went into post office and opened up with a m16 …..went after people he thought were after him ……….rather real or imagined, and it happened more than once …was more failure of government taking care of war veterans than anything else….giving them job preference did not help the ghosts…………..how many faces pop up in your head at night….they dont dull with age
That’s whats wrong with requiring a permit for exercising a right. If it takes a permit, how can it be a right?
The answer is they made it into a privilege just like driving a car on the roads.
they want to KAKE the right away, we need to stop them and jail them title 18 242
Whoever, under color of any law, statute, ordinance, regulation, or custom, willfully subjects any person in any State, Territory, Commonwealth, Possession, or District to the deprivation of any rights, privileges, or immunities secured or protected by the Constitution or laws of the United States, or to different punishments, pains, or penalties, on account of such person being an alien, or by reason of his color, or race, than are prescribed for the punishment of citizens, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than one year, or both; and if bodily injury results from the acts committed in… Read more »
Been carrying in P.O.’s for over 50 years. LittIe red signs don’t mean JACK. UnIess there is a metaI detector, I’m carrying.
My post office has a sign that has a picture of a Glock with the circle and a line going through it. I don’t carry a Glock, I carry a Berretta.
I guess my local Post Office misread the memo. I went there Tuesday to mail a birthday card to my oldest daughter and the sign that used to be on the front door telling us we are entering a Gun Free Killing Zone was gone. Not to be seen anywhere.
May be state dependent. If they are using employment law to restrict employees, some states limit their ability to do that. Here in Texas employers may ban firearms inside but may not ban car carry. Not optimal, but far better than before state banned employers from banning guns in parking lot. Have not been to a post office since the ruling, but would not be surprised to see 30.06, 30.07 and 30.05 signs when I do.
same at mine in rural florida, was in Miami Monday , postal store ,not sure if they have same rules, did not have sign bought stamps
Crazy world we live in. I remember ordering parts as a youngster to build a new deer rifle. Action, barrel, stock, custom trigger, and some mounts for a scope. Life was great! What happened? All the new laws didn’t do a damn thing to deter criminals, only law-abiding citizens. Criminals don’t obey the laws. Lee Harvey Oswald didn’t assassinate JFK and neither did his mail-order guns! In 1972 I don’t remember what laws were passed, I was more worried about graduating from High School and whether I would be drafted and go to Vietnam since my lotto number was thirty-one… Read more »
Heck, I ordered a .22 rifle as a kid. Didn’t shoot anyone or hold up liquor stores, either.
I have always found it amusing (and somewhat telling of the mental/emotional state of the gummit poohbahs that hold it as the chief function in life to restrict the rest of us, that I can walk into a Starbux (why would I?) Fred Meyer, Chipotle, WalMart, Walgreens, HEB, barber shop, Ace hardware or Home Cheapot, with my “Friend” on my hip, and no problem. But the nanosecond my front whatever now masquerades as a bumper crosses the joint between the concrete sidewalk and the tarmac of the car park, I am an instant felon. Hah I cna even stand out… Read more »
That’s because all the elites and tyrants are druggies, they especially like the type of drugs that allows them “…to take a trip and never leave the farm.”
I believe that it”s the employees that “go postal” not the customers.
“…because the Second Amendment right to bear arms has not been extended to “government buildings.”
Says who? It’s worth emphasizing that, in fact, our Constitution does not guarantee our rights, but merely recorded those natural rights which proceeded the document.
it restricts the government from making rules against our rights, so they cant make any rules about OUR buildings
In addition, there is Title 18, Section 930, Subsection D, Paragraph 3 which says that government buildings are a rightful place to carry a weapon for “…other lawful purposes.”. The postal code used in this article is in Title 39 Chapter I, Subchapter D Part 232, Section 232.1, “No person on U.S. Postal Service® property may carry or store firearms…” Since these two laws contradict, the rule of lenity should cover this situation. It says that a court must apply the law in the manner that is most favorable to the defendant when it is ambiguous. How many time has our… Read more »
This was withheld awaiting approval, then disappeared: In addition, there is Title 18, Section 930, Subsection D, Paragraph 3. The above law recognizes that government facilities are a rightful place to carry a weapon for “…other lawful purposes.”. The postal code is in Title 39 Chapter I Subchapter D Part 232 § 232.1, “No person on U.S. Postal Service® property may carry or store firearms…” Since these two laws contradict, the rule of lenity should cover this situation. It says that a court must apply the law in the manner that is most favorable to the defendant when it is ambiguous.… Read more »
Well, I am awaiting approval – round two – concerning the written government law… I just don’t know.
HLB
One of Bill Clinton’s money laundering scams was getting funding passed to put 100,000 new cops on the streets. The Cops were never hired and of course as with other Democrat plans the money just disappeared. I have a simple plan that would bolster the number of able and armed individuals on the streets and it would be a great assist to police officers. Best of all it would cost nearly nothing. Since about 70% of all postal employees are prior military due to veterans preference in hiring. They should be allowed the option to be armed while performing their… Read more »
When you look closely at the USPS “regulation”, I can only find in it the mention of EMPLOYEES over and over. I see no mention of the PUBLIC so they are extending what is for EMPLOYEES by fiat to the public. It has ALWAYS been a postal EMPLOYEE that went on a shooting spree. If I happen to be in a post office when one of them decides that he wants to payback some other employee or his boss, I want to be PROTECTED. And since they don’t have armed guards walking around in the lobby, they can GO TO… Read more »
As far as the note “Restrictions on federal employees are different. They may be controlled by labor law and union contracts” goes, you can not use any law meant for some other purposes to infringe on a constitutional right. You can only use that law or regulation for the “other” purposes. The back door approach does not work.
HLB
it may not be legal or constitutional ,but they still do it, and are not punished for it
Civil Disobedience could be of use here. This could be resistance at the first responder (the person who is being accosted) level.
HLB
Dean Weingarten, Thank you VERY much for all your articles – I particularly find your “bear defense” articles of extra value. Here is a recent story that might interest you and your readers regarding two robberies in one month at a small-town USPS (Shawnee, OK): Note: Several mentions of needed “security” cameras and “security” guards, but not a single mention of USPS patrons’ disarmament. —————————————————————————————– Shawnee, OK (2020 Pop ≈ 31K / 40 miles East of Oklahoma City): Feb 3, 2024: “Shawnee community worried after woman assaulted, robbed at post office” Kolby Terrell / Reporter Updated: 6:10 PM CST Feb 6, 2024 https://www.koco.com/article/oklahoma-shawnee-woman-robbed-post-office/46664544 Article… Read more »