Carrying a gun for defensive purposes, with an empty chamber, is a controversial measure which proponents claim enhances safety. It is one of the reasons handguns appear to work better for self defense against bears than long guns. Long guns are more commonly carried with an empty chamber than are handguns. Handguns are more commonly carried for self defense than long guns. A recent bear attack illustrates the problem of carrying a long gun with an empty chamber. From Alaskapublic.org 2021:
“I remember looking over my shoulder, and I was saying something to them when I kind of heard the bushes crashing, and that’s when I looked up and looked over toward [where] the sound was coming from,” he said. “I couldn’t even really see it all at first because the brush was pretty thick, but about 20 feet away … this bear comes charging out of the brush at full speed.”
The victim had warning. He heard the bushes crashing. He had time to look in the direction the noise was coming from. It was almost certainly a large animal, a bear or a moose. If he had a loaded shotgun in his hands, he could have covered the area the sound was coming from, at the ready. The victim had a pre-concieved notion of how an attack might happen. The most common way in which bear maulings occur is with a surprise attack from short distances.
Coltharp said it happened so fast.
“And without any, you know, warning at all. Normally, when they’re defensive over their territory, they let you know,” he said. “They get all huffy and puffy and they start popping their jaw and making a lot of noise, and there was there was absolutely none of that going on. So it was kind of a unique situation.”
The shotgun was slung on his back with an empty chamber. The action release probably had to be activated to chamber the first round. If the release is triggered while the shotgun is carried slung, weight of the forend tends to pull the action open, gradually opening the ejection port and exposing it to the introduction of twigs, dirt and debris.
Coltharp grabbed his gun from a sling on his back and tried to load the chamber, but the bear was faster than he was. So he jumped to the side to get his upper body and head out of the way in the hopes that Walloch, who was also armed, could get in a shot.
“And that’s when that’s when the bear reached down and just kind of chomped me right above my kneecap,” Coltharp said. “And [the bear] was just shaking me around by my leg. I was just laying there as it’s got me, just yelling, ‘Shoot it, shoot it, shoot it, shoot it!’ as fast as I could say it.”
There were three Fish and Game workers only a few yards apart along the trail when the bear attacked Coltharp. Coltharp, the victim, was the point man in the lead. This is a more vulnerable position, and requires extra diligence. The man behind Coltharp, Walloch, also carried a shotgun. As Coltharp was being mauled, he accessed the shotgun and shot the bear off of Coltharp, then shot two more shots into the bear to make sure it was out of the fight.
We are not told if Walloch carried his shotgun slung with an empty chamber. It is common for large bureaucracies to impose “safety” measures which place burdens on the people in the field in order to add a small amount of “cover” for the bureaucrats in charge.
Empty chambers have played roles in several bear mauling incidents.
On September 7, 1990, Brian Kelly was hunting caribou in British Columbia. He surprised a sow grizzly with three cubs. He waved his arms and shouted as the bears closed in. After the ineffective waving, he reached for the rifle. From Bear Attacks the Deadly Truth, by Sheldon, p. 122:
Instinctively, I reached for my rifle; waving and shouting wasn’t going to work this time. My rifle was on the right side of my pack in a break-away mount. The magazine was full but there wasn’t a round in the chamber.
The sow stopped three feet from Kelly. Instead of having a rifle ready and shooting the bear, Kelly punched the sow on the side of the head. He was severely mauled and took six months to recover. He never fired the rifle.
Ralph Borders was hunting Dall mountain sheep with his brother-in-law, Bill. As an Alaskan resident he had purchased a bear tag just in case they encountered one he wanted to take. On September 11, 1992, they encountered a sow with two cubs. The bears started running at them. From Some Bears Kill by Kanuit, p. 42, Ralph Borders recounts:
Bill carried a bullet in the chamber of his .06 and he was shooting, handloaded 180 grain Nosler seconds. I was trying to get my gloves off so I could chamber a round. (My .338 Ruger has always had a problem getting a shell from the clip to the chamber).
Ralph Borders was hunting with an empty chamber. He estimated the bears were on them in four seconds. He was severely mauled by a sow grizzly. His brother in law, Bill, carried his rifle with a round in the chamber and was able to shoot the bear off of Ralph, but first had shot one of the nearly grown cubs. It ran off with the other cub. Ralph was unable to get a shot off.
There is a cultural set which claims carrying a firearm with a round chambered is unsafe. It may make sense to have empty chambers in camp, in vehicles or on horseback. A guide may insist clients who are behind him have empty chambers.
An empty chamber imposes a severe disadvantage in many hunting situations or when carrying for self defense.
Carrying a long gun slung over one’s back, with an empty chamber, means a delay of several seconds before the gun may be fired. The delay is probably 5-7 seconds at minimum, and possibly several seconds longer. One of the reasons surprise bear attacks result in more injuries is, if the person being attacked has a few more seconds to react, they have time to unsling a long gun, chamber a round, and get ready. It makes no sense to hunt game which may require a quick reaction, alone, with an empty chamber.
Conversely, when a long gun is held with a loaded chamber at the ready, many shooters can fire a sufficiently accurate shot at close range, in under a second. It is not a difficult skill to acquire. Good practice can be jump shooting upland birds or ducks. If you are not quick, you miss many opportunities to harvest birds. Jump shooting doves can be nearly as fast as jump shooting woodcock or ruffed grouse. Several people have successfully defended themselves against surprise, close range bear attacks with shotguns and bird shot.
Much depends on a person’s mind set. If a person knows the danger is there and an attack is possible, they are far ahead of the person who believes “It will never happen to me!” Some practice with quick reaction drills and/or jump shooting game birds will strengthen the ability to engage the threat quickly and decisively.
About Dean Weingarten:
Dean Weingarten has been a peace officer, a military officer, was on the University of Wisconsin Pistol Team for four years, and was first certified to teach firearms safety in 1973. He taught the Arizona concealed carry course for fifteen years until the goal of Constitutional Carry was attained. He has degrees in meteorology and mining engineering, and retired from the Department of Defense after a 30 year career in Army Research, Development, Testing, and Evaluation.
When hunting my rifle is loaded before stepping into the woods and doesn’t get unloaded and made safe until I’m ready to put it in the gun case to go home. When in camp it stays loaded as well.
In commiefornia if you are hunting and in camp and your gun is loaded, Make sure it is leaning against a tree or stump or something, anything but your truck. It’s the against the law to have a loaded gun in, on or near the vehicle. I had a friend lose his hunting privileges for 2 years, fined 350.00 and lost his rifle. Circa 1989
I’m still trying to figure out how “The Union” can secede from Kommiefornia. Nothing good has come from there in far too many years.
It’s a shame that is why everyone is running away that can. My biggest problem is they usually set the example for idiocy that the remaining blue states follow. Right now on the left coast the governors are in a race to see who can be the biggest 2nd amendment eliminator and the biggest progressive for climate change.
It’s all going to hell in a handbasket.
Newscum is a greasy POS!!!
Just like his Aunt, Nancy Pelosi. It runs in the family.
Build a WALL around it along with Washington and Oregon.
LOL, to keep others out? Everyone seems to come to the left coast for vacation especially when they are burning up in the west.
Went to Portland Oregon and southern Washington back in ’99 to visit friends. A great place in all respects and I even considered moving there for a job. As it stands now it was a good thing I stayed in Iowa. The Left coast is the poster child for how to destroy a once great part of the nation. Both economically and socially.
Amen
LOL, I guess the people that are down voting must be Satanists. Who else would downvote an AMEN!
AMEN!
EASTERN Oregon and Washington.
I used to set out my camp chair and lean the rifle on it away from the truck.
I sat on a round and leaned it against the log I was next too or another taller round, right next to the coffee cup.
Which is one reason there are too many firearms “accidents ” since too many neglect to put the weapon in a safe condition.
I use the safety switch. I would never place my rifle in a precarious position, I might damage by 600 dollar scope on my 250 dollar rifle.
I’m not sure where I indicated my rifle wasn’t on safe while hunting or in camp, but when I step into the woods, my Mauser has a round chambered, with four rounds in the magazine and the 3-position safety is all the way to the right which locks the bolt and disengages the sear. When I spot game the 3-position safety gets moved to the middle (Upright) safety position, bolt is unlocked, and sear is disengaged. When ready to fire, the 3-position safety is moved to the left and bolt is still unlocked but the sear is engaged and ready… Read more »
Around bears in bear country if you are walking around without a round in your rifle chamber you should win a Darwin Award. If you live. It does not get any more foolish /careless than that. Actually, you shouldn’t even be in the woods.
My favorite thing is the “JuSt CaRrY bEaR sPrAy” crowd. They’ll just die “spicy”.
What…it doesn’t work??? DOPES
with bells on
I chamber a round as soon as I leave the vehicle and always have a fully loaded handgun also because we has grizzley bears in Montana that don’t give hunters time to chamber a round before they attack . The big bears here prefer to chew on transplants that follow that empty chamber safety BS .
Why carry any gun if the there’s no round in the chamber? It’s ridiculous.
The Tueller Drill teaches that a person armed with a knife can attack from 21 ft. in under 2 seconds. A pissed off bear can cover that same distance in less. Choices have consequences. Carrying sans a round in the chamber is a choice. Resulting in bad consequences when dealing with an armed criminal or a bear.
the danger is always there and attack is possible in the field, on the sidewalk and in your home or vehicle. there is no sane reason to not carry with one in the chamber. your life literally depends upon it.
don’t have your eyes on a screen, constant situational awareness along with practicing scenarios can help prepare you for that instance. prepare yourself before it occurs.
We have cowboy action pistol range and training. Good way to learn to shoot fast and on target. To bad it doesn’t include semi auto. I wonder if todays cowboys carry a six shooter on the horse or a semi auto. Most people I see on quads carry semi on their chest.
I have seen them carry one or the other. Personal preference.
Just speaking from experience and personal preference, I would say a revolver. Revolvers are a lot more reliable and can be chambered for a considerably more effective cartridge. Guess I am an oldtimer who harkens to the day when a single round did the job.
Since they don’t carry Glocks with switches and extended mags, I will buy that. I used to carry a Colt Python in 357 mag when I was on horseback, of course being from Kommiefornia, I couldn’t buy anything but what they authorized and I didn’t want what they did.
If you want a big hammer handgun, convert your steel frame1911 or Glock 21 to .460 Rowland and get .44 magnum power in a semi-auto with the quick mag change capability.
I believe you told me this once before long ago. I have a tendency to stick with stock stuff. I had a race car and the engine was maxed out. Had to change main bearings and rod bearings every three races.
I like the idea on dropping by a local store and being able to buy stuff if something breaks. Thank you for the suggestion though, I appreciate your time.
Mama always said…better to have a round chambered and not need it, than to not have a round chambered and need it. Or something like that…:) 🙂 🙂
A gun with an empty chamber is a stick. If a gun is not dangerous, it is useless. DUH!!!
When I was a soldier in Vietnam, we were required to chamber a round when leaving our Hill and upon returning we carried our weapons with magazine in the rifle, bolt locked open on an empty chamber.
I was not in Nam but we did the same thing. One neat thing about an AR with a mag in place and the bolt locked to the rear, one good tap and that bolt goes into battery.
Arm up and carry on
An avoidable incident. You can bet the bear was cocked and loaded.
You unload in camp, crossing fences, and getting into vehicles. Imagine going pheasant or rabbit hunting with an empty chamber!
To me the entire issue about carrying on an empty chamber can be summed up in one word; TIME. If you are wise enough to be aware of your surroundings you MAY have TIME to draw, chamber, aim and get off a good shot or two on an aggressive predator — MAYBE. If you don’t see trouble coming, you have even less TIME to effectively deal with a threat. Most of the time you will be dealing with surprise, denial, speed of engagement to prevent disaster, proper aiming and backstop check, trigger press and maybe repeated trigger press. At best,… Read more »
I’ve been walking the woods for over 50 years and never had an empty chamber. Not sure where that comes from? Same with CC.
Fudds
Self alleviating issue
Interesting discussion. In a similar vein, we Marines were required by higher headquarters to keep our weapons on Safe while in the field in Vietnam. We always had rounds chambered – that was done as soon as we had exited our perimeters. We quickly discovered that even shifting the selector to Fire took too much time when we had a sudden encounter with the enemy – particularly with the early version of the M16, which had a detent problem and was difficult to flick the lever over. We ignored higher headquarters from then on and carried our weapons ready to… Read more »
Removal of the trigger-guard also worked. Nothing then blocking access to the trigger…
A father and son were killed in a convenience store robbery because the father did not have a round in the chamber and struggled to load the weapon. This happened in the past 3 years, l can’t find it, but l’m sure most of you remember. When seconds count…
“It is common for large bureaucracies to impose “safety” measures which place burdens on the people in the field in order to add a small amount of “cover” for the bureaucrats in charge.” Truer words have never been spoken. The sad part to this is when you have to witness one of your subordinates follow these ass covering rules and it ends up costing somebody their life.
“I carry with an empty chamber”. said no cop ever.