Rep. Thomas Masse (R-KY) confronted Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) Director Steve Dettelbach over the government agency asking federal firearms licensees (FFL) in border states to report cash transactions.
“Are you aware that it’s illegal for you to create a registry of gun owners in the United States,” Rep Masse asked Dettelbach.
Rep. Masse was referencing an interview that Mr. Dettelbach did with CBS’s “60 Minutes.” It was the same interview where the ATF’s firearms “expert” could not disassemble or assemble a Glock pistol. In the interview, Dettelbach pointed out that someone could buy a Barrett .50 cal in cash. He said that FFLs should report cash purchases to the ATF. Many in the gun community took issue with this statement because it is not illegal to buy firearms with cash, and in many cases, gun owners prefer to use cash, especially since programs such as “Operation Choke Point” exist.
Operation Choke Point was an operation launched by the government to crack down on banks that dealt with the firearms industry by classifying such businesses as “high risk.” The firearms industry concluded that the government was using its power to infringe on the rights of Americans because the rate of fraud in the firearms world is lower than the national average. The chances of someone committing fraud after handing over legal documentation and going through a background check are low.
Rep. Masse asked Dettelbach if he was aware that the ATF is forbidden by law to keep a registry of gun sales. Mr. Dettelbach acknowledged he was aware of the law and pushed back, claiming that the ATF asking for notification of cash sales in border states did not constitute a registry.
Mr. Dettelbach claimed that the information was requested to prevent straw purchases of firearms and prevent those firearms from ending up in the hands of cartel members. He referenced the joint effort between the ATF and the National Shooting Sports Foundation (NSSF) to cut down on straw purchases. He specifically mentioned the “Don’t Lie for The Other Guy” program, but that program has nothing to do with tracking cash purchases. That program is more of a public awareness campaign.
“We run a program called Don’t Lie for the Other Guy, along with the National Shooting Sports Foundation,” Dettelbach told Masse. “And there is a minutia of straw purchasing matters, where there are warning signs where people can contact us and firearms dealers who are law-abiding business owners and the majority are, I want to say that again here, they frequently contact us, especially on the southwest border, because cartels are using straw purchases to arm themselves with the kind of weaponry that results in death and destruction and the danger to Americans and law enforcement.”
Many are worried that the ATF wants a paper trail for gun purchases to make it easier for the ATF to track sales. Banks have shown their willingness to pass on information to the federal government, and the federal government has pushed for companies such as credit card processors to mark firearms sales. Many consider this to be a backdoor registry. Rep Massee himself highlighted the banks turning over information to the government in his response to Dettelbach.
“We’re concerned because banks are keeping these records and giving them to the government without a legal process, and I yield back,” Masse responded
This situation isn’t the first time the ATF has tried to skirt the rules on keeping a registry. As first reported on AmmoLand News, the ATF’s Out of Business Office has digitized nearly one billion records from FFLs that have gone out of business. These documents are stored in a PDF format. Although the ATF claims not to have the optical character recognition (OCR) turned on, it can be activated with as little as three clicks, which would create a searchable database.
Discouraging the use of legal tender to buy firearms does not discourage straw purchases. Whether using cash, credit, or a check, a person must go through the same background checks. The only thing that using cash does is make it harder for banks and credit card companies to track gun purchases.
About John Crump
John is a NRA instructor and a constitutional activist. Mr. Crump has written about firearms, interviewed people of all walks of life, and on the Constitution. John lives in Northern Virginia with his wife and sons and can be followed on Twitter at @crumpyss, or at www.crumpy.com.
I have been a FFL for 16 years. I have been solicited by credit card companies to accept cc transactions. For 16 years I have refused on the grounds that the credit card companies and banks are too closely related through the FDIC and the US Treasury Department. I accept cash and checks only; it may be an inconvenience to my customers, but few have complained, especially when I explain that it is none of the government’s business how they spend their money. I am 100% against a merchant code for firearms related purchases. A purchase for something as innocuous… Read more »
Anyone who thinks they are not already “on a list” is fooling themselves.
Maybe we should all try to get on so many lists of so many people that “they” could not deal with the avalanche. of names.
Good idea………….shhh!
Being on a “list” matters not a bit. Everyone probably has neighbors, fellow church congregants, family members etc..that for a thousand bucks and a bottle of booze (maybe more so a baggie of dope) would sell them out in a heartbeat. Don’t live your life in fear – put your faith in the good Lord, keep your eyes and ears open and your firearms well maintained. Remember, our Revolution was fought and supported by what? Oh yeah – 3-5% of the population that weren’t lily livered cowards or lazy slobs who enjoyed being “ruled” by the Brits.
Hi Ope. The dog is on medication but it is doing better. I hope it will be the same when she is off of it. The ATF has made copies of 4473s. They have been busted taking photo’s on their phones of the forms and now they have a new electronic form so they don’t have to go and collect the form that used to have to stay with the FFL for 5 years that was increased to 20 and now I think it has been changed to infinity and they all have to be turned in when the FFL… Read more »
Glad to hear about the dog! That draining your account part is why we all should keep as much cash as possible in our homes, If they drain your account, how can you fight back? If you have cash you can pay your bills and get an attorney.
LOL, funny you should say that. I just emptied the safe a few weeks ago and put it in the bank. I am concerned about an overnight change like they had in another country where they drained half of the peoples accounts and then locked them out of the ATM’s for a period and then only let them get a couple hundred dollars a day. The other concern is that if ObiDUM get’s his wish, my money could be changed over to digital currency overnight and there will be nothing I can do about it. The USA is turning into… Read more »
New Venezuela….I really like that.
Yes, but they have you trapped. I found a piece of property in SD that I wanted and went to buy it and told them I had the down payment cash. They ran my credit and said that I didn’t have enough in my checking or a savings account. I told them it is in my safe. They said they could not take the money because it is called mattress money. I said money is money and they said I need to prove where it comes from and they could not do that unless it came from a savings account?… Read more »
True, it is bankers that write the Uniform Commercial Code (UCC).
With the help of the Rothchilds of the world.
And their protegees.
Here is how to get around that: Lets say that you take out $1000. Put all of the cash into the little bank envelope (that has the bank’s name and logo in it) along with the receipt that shows you took the cash out of a legitimate account. Close the flap and tape it shut. Write on the tape that seals the envelope flap, the following words: “$1000 after FIT dollars in twenty dollar bills from my military pension, and the date” Now you do not have mattress money or drug proceeds. You have proof of the legitimate source, and… Read more »
Even with your technique you are vulnerable to devaluation via inflation. At rate federal deficit is growing we’ll be lucky to avoid total collapse of the dollar. We’ll be lucky if the dollar retains 10% of its value over the next decade – worse if biden somehow remains in whitehouse!
Yes, but the problem at hand was the mattress money issue. All fiat money is subject to inflation even if you put it to work. I’m making 20% on my investment, but Biden inflation is 19%. We clipped coupons and reduced our grocery bill by 15%, but Biden inflation caused it to go up 19%. Real money, gold and silver, go up faster than inflation. Gold went from $1800 to $2400, just in recent memory. In anticipation of your $ prediction we are buying stuff while we still can (e.g. 25 year storage foods, a life time supply of ammo… Read more »
just read this and wanted to let you know. Tires have about a 10 year tire life so even though you are storing tires and they are not on the ground, they still deteriorate and degrade. If they are Les Schwab tires they only last about 8 years.
Michelins are about the best and then BFG.
What you’re not buying will save you 50% from the taxes the governmint (pun intended) charges as the nefarious “Sin Tax”.
Wont work, they want to transfer funds from one bank to the other. I had the receipts of withdrawal from the bank in the envelope that I got from the transaction. In addition I could have gone to my account and proven the matching withdrawals right there in front of them and the answer always was, they HAVE TO TRANSFER FROM ANOTHER BANK. This was savings and loans in SD and a bank in SD that was a sister bank to mine. They had to sit on it and wait for it to clear. Believe me, I tried everything even… Read more »
I guess you did! Belle Fourche and Northwest on 212 is Beautiful country!
I love SD, in the summer.
So much for all debts public and private.
Ya, that was days of old. Might of worked before we were taken off the gold standard but not today.
You know all I hear all day long is “I buy gold”. I remember reading there was a time when the value of gold was low and the president at the time made everyone turn it in, by law. Then when the believed it was all collected, they raised the price. Who is to say that wont happen again.
I no longer trust my tyrannist government.
Trump 2024
We have one of those pre 1900 gold 20.00 double eagles. Can’t find a price earlier than 1900. It’s in a “necklace” made by placing a very small gold cover around the coin and a chain attached to it.
I’m afraid I can’t answer that at the moment. I’m starting my 5th week of being in bed with a broken foot. I was placed in a boot and I can’t put any weight on it until the doctor says I can. And, the gun safe is not in this condo. If I get caught out of bed and not on the pot, I get yelled at by wife. I do know the coin is not ms70, but it could be somewhere between ms65 to 68. I cant grade a coin. I haven’t seen it for probably 3 years. It’s… Read more »
Thanks.
When everything goes sideways, the only gold that will be worth anything is bullion. The money that you get for a stamping will be basically worthless because gold buyers wont want to pay for it.
So as much as you may love the piece as I would, if you can afford to hold onto it go for it but if you plan on trading it in if things go south, I would sell it now while the stamp has value and buy straight gold.
My gold is guns, bullets and food.
Good luck with that, brother!
Well, I am installing a trigger system for a friend and then we are going to test it. I will be back later this evening. Best wishes on the test.
Hi, thanks for asking. Well? I don’t have all the results yet and they cannot tell me what is wrong but they are talking about numbers being high on different things but I think we may have resolved it, maybe. We bought Purina Puppy Pro because that is what she was raised on. She never had a problem with it until we bought the same exact food from Amazon because our local store could not get it on time for when she ran out. Yesterday we switched foods and she gobbled it up like nobody’s business and kept asking for… Read more »
Outstanding news!
Yes, I think I am breathing a sigh of relief. Going to buy her a different hard dog food in another hour. I must say, I spent a lot of money on her but now we know pretty much everything about her. The doctor said she still has more growing to do so she will be over what the park rules say she can weigh but my doctor says if there is a problem, he will write a prescription for her to be my SUPPORT ANIMAL and legally there is nothing she can do about it. LOL. Could have got… Read more »
I have some dry dog food that I am throwing out that is good till Oct. 2025. Some of the other foods that I am throwing out is good for two more months. I am not sure that vacuum packing it would preserve it. Currently, I say this. Stay away from Amazon dog food. We just bought another brand of puppy food at the store and she loves it. Taste of the wild Prairie Canine grain free with roasted bison and venison. I love bison, wonder if it tastes like a bison steak. Yummy. Maybe I might trade her dinner… Read more »
You can eat dog food. It’s as good as people food. When son worked at Kal Kan, he said the suits would come into the freezer when the frozen food to be made into dog food arrived and cut a few pounds off of the large chunks, take them upstairs, cook them and have a feast.
I once ate a bite of Alpo on a dare. It wasn’t something that I would willfully eat but when you are starving you will eat anything.
Where is he? I haven’t seen him and I am concerned about that infection that he never should have got.
The founding fathers wrote the Second Amendment specifically to protect us from the ATF…
And that contract, the Constitution, by which We the People created the government and gave it ONLY SEVERELY LIMITED powers, prohibits the gov or any other party from infringing on our right to arms. Licensing to sell, or to buy or carry is PROHIBITED by the Constitution. Gov has zero authority over firearms and our selection, ownership, sales, manufacture and use. FFL what? No need! FBTFE? Nope! F that bureau and all the violators there employed.
It is more of a trust. Sovereighty goes from the people to our representitives not for their own use, but for use for out benefit.
A contract is something for something.
Such wisdom and insight…..inspired truly.
Massie is one of only a handful of people in DC that’s actually pro-2A. If only we had a few hundred more just like him we could actually abolish the ATF, NFA, and every other infringement.
Yes, it should have. The ATF was nothing more than a small division of the IRS until Treasury Department Order 221 separated it into its own independent Bureau in 1972.
Massive is pro-liberty. Our liberty is a complex web of interdependent rights and prohibitions against government interference. Eliminate one and the whole house comes down.
FFLs need to give the middle finger to the ATF. The ATF is complicit in trying to eliminate FFLs that fully attempt to comply with the law, revoking licenses for minor paperwork errors. Why should FFLs cooperate voluntarily with such an agency and administration?
Or else they’ll shoot you in the head!
That be “Little Rockin.”….ala bashin’ yo door’n’bullet in yo’ head. Along with “Ruby Ridging”….shootin’your wifey’n’sonny boy and a particular favorite…WACOizing….”dozin’n’burnin you’n’wifey’in;kiddies….
The Second Amendment is the biggest enemy of the demoCRAPs. That’s why they so vehemently are seeking to diminish and eliminate it. Unfortunately for them, 2/3’s of the states are not ruled by demoCRAPs.
Perhaps someone should have told Hunter before he lied on their wonderful ATF Form #4473. Looks like their form has come back to bite them a bit.
If you want to see what is behind Dettelbach’s lies about the registry, take a look at GOA’s analysis of the FBATFE’s response to their FOIA request:
https://www.gunowners.org/wp-content/uploads/GOA-ATFs-Illegal-Gun-Owner-Registry.pdf
Good article.
“You can trust me! I’ll just put it in a little bit and you’ll still be a virgin!” — Carlos Mencia
On the one hand, it’s funny when Mencia, a professional comedian, says something like that.
But when the director of BATFE does it, it isn’t so funny.
Dettelbach is obviously a useful moron for the administration.
And that is exactly why he was appointed to that ‘position’.
The ATF is merely a symptom, not the illness. Like a pustule on the melanoma cancer better known as the Pedocrats.
Someone should Red-Flag Dettelbach.
Running terrorist organization certainly should qualify for red-flag if anything does.
HMMMM…..to bad, so sad, Doodlefuck. All my bills say…”This note is legal tender for all debts, public and private.”
FFLs should sell bubble gum at the cash register like back in the good days…..5 cents…cash only….report every single transaction…
Many in the firearm community prefer to make cash purchases given the intensity of “Operation Wifey.” Old Harley buddy, President of Wabash Trailer before retirement, always told his wifey when asked about cost of latest Harley purchase….$29.99. Tried to get him to buy my Harley purchases for….$29.99. She knew it wasn’t true, but she did enjoy the good life. Another Harley Buddy VP Sales of Holcim Cement, bought $50,000 Harley, telling wifey it has everything possible on it, never any new accessories purchases needed. Interesting when he returned from business trip, wifey drew his attention to phone message from local… Read more »
I have searched long and hard for that ‘in a nutshell’ confession that will illustrate to you all the reigning ethic of federal law enforcement. And thanks to James Comey I have found it: “The Christian in politics must be willing to transgress any purely Christian ethic. He must be willing to sin in the name of justice.” Self-righteous religious types fueled by hubris and Marxist ideology are running your government. This explains how federal agents and agencies can go totally rogue and still smile in your face. It is these kinds of ethics that are taught in most universities… Read more »
“Straw purchases” and purchasing firearms with cash, or any other means, are two different subjects. Dettelbach tried to deflect Rep. Masse’s question, properly posed, by changing the subject.
I have yet to see him – or any other appointed bureaucrat for that matter – ever give a direct answer to any question and especially one that would pin them down.
ATF is getting ridiculously aggressive with the new rules
And, they will continue until they start getting Little Rocked. Mao was partially correct…”All power (and Freedom, he missed this part, not his forte) comes from the barrel of a gun.” That’s the way it was even in 1776.
In 1776, patriots had to clean the house.
The house is filthy again.
VETS UP!!!
But what is the end goal of all this tracking? It is to get information for the weaponized legal system/Matrix to bankrupt us or bludgeon us to death, if not shoot us in the head like Malinowski! So, the only logical way to get to a peaceful ending is to educate lots of people that they do not have to participate in the 100% corrupted criminal cabal we call the legal system, if they do not wish to do so! Go to the CourtVictimdotcom website, and read about The UNIVERSAL Get Out Of Jail For Free Card, and then share… Read more »
Where in the law does the ATF have the capacity to require cash sales be reported??? Another over reaching ATF tyranny.
the director of the aft said “straw purchasers at the border are using cash” backed up by fast and furious straw purchasers1
The CRIMINAL MASTERMIND, ‘mr. dittlebach’ IS the DIRECTOR that had to AUTHORIZE the ASSASSINATION HIT JOB on Mr. Milanowski! He and EVERY person under him and the ASSAILANTS who BUSTED in the FRONT DOOR of Mr. Malinowsky’s home door MUST BE HELD PERSONALLY RESPONSIBLE for the DEATH of a Legal Law Abiding American Citizen!!! ‘dittlebach’ IS TOTALLY RESPONSIBLE FOR BREAKING FEDERAL LAW for having the SEARCHABLE DATA BASE!!!! Let him explain why the ‘atf’ put ALL of the information on ONE PAGE of the 4473 form, when an American Citizen LEGALLY PURCHASES a GUN!!!!!!!! These RECORDS or DATA BASES DO… Read more »