On January 12, 2024, Judge Kathryn Kimball ruled the federal ban on possession of firearms in post offices is unconstitutional because it violates the Second Amendment.
The United States indicted Emmanuel Ayala, a postal worker, for possessing a firearm in a Federal facility in violation of 18 U.S.C. § 930(a). Ayala argues that statute is unconstitutional as applied to him because the historical record does not support a law banning firearms in post offices. See N.Y. State Rifle & Pistol Ass’n v. Bruen, 597 U.S. 1 (2022). Relying on dicta from earlier cases, the United States responds that the Second Amendment allows it to punish the bearing of arms inside any government building. But the Supreme Court has been clear: the government must point to historical principles that would permit it to prohibit firearms possession in post offices. See id. at 17, 24. The United States fails to meet that burden. Thus, I dismiss the § 930(a) charge because it violates Ayala’s Second Amendment right to bear arms.
The case was discussed in a previous AmmoLand article. On February 12, 2024, the Assistant United States Attorney notified the court that the matter would be appealed to the United States Court of Appeals for the Eleventh Circuit. From the document:
The United States of America appeals to the United States Court of Appeals for the Eleventh Circuit the order granting defendant’s motion to dismiss in part, Doc. 57, and the dismissal of count one, Doc. 58, both entered in this action on January 12, 2024.
On February 13, 2024, Judge Kathryn Kimball issued an administrative stay on the case pending the appeal.
There does not appear to be any significant movement in this case, except for the withdrawal of Ross Roberts as the prosecutor.
On May 2, 2024, Ross Roberts, Assistant United States Attorney, withdrew from the case. Assistant United States Attorney Abigail King will now represent the government in this matter.
USA v Ayala is the opposite of what happened in Colorado in Bonidy v USPS. Bonidy initially won his case in the District Court in 2012. The USPS appealed to the Court of Appeals for the Tenth Circuit. The Tenth Circuit reversed the district court and held that because the Heller decision mentioned “government buildings,” the USPS could ban guns on any USPS property in 2015.
Bonidy asked the Supreme Court to hear the case. However, Justice Scalia had died, and the court had only eight members. The Supreme Court refused to hear the Bonidy case in 2016.
The Bruen decision in 2022 slapped down the Tenth Circuit appeals court approach to the Second Amendment. The guidance under the Bruen decision is clear. Judge Kimball, in the Ayala case, followed the guidance from the Bruen decision and ruled the ban on guns in the post office unconstitutional. When the case goes to the Court of Appeals for the Eleventh Circuit, we will find out if the three-judge panel on the Eleventh Circuit will follow the clear guidance given by Bruen.
There is no applicable historical precedent for banning guns in post offices. No ban on guns in the post office existed when the Second Amendment was ratified or at the time of the ratification of the Fourteenth Amendment. The ban is very recent in Constitutional terms. It was created in 1972.
About Dean Weingarten:
Dean Weingarten has been a peace officer, a military officer, was on the University of Wisconsin Pistol Team for four years, and was first certified to teach firearms safety in 1973. He taught the Arizona concealed carry course for fifteen years until the goal of Constitutional Carry was attained. He has degrees in meteorology and mining engineering, and retired from the Department of Defense after a 30 year career in Army Research, Development, Testing, and Evaluation.
Do gun free zones ever stop shootings? Or just from shooting back???
German cop ignores the Islamist with the knife, goes after the citizen protesting the invasion…
Gets Dead.
gunfreezone(dot)net/diversity-is-our-strength-or-karma-is-a-hateful-bitch/
There is no karma.
if i remember correctly, the ban was because postal employees shot up the post office, not because law-abiding citizens went in there to rob the place or shoot someone.
if the courts would interpret the Constitution with the correct context, the way it was written, and not make up law we would be much better off and actually be free men.
Yes, you remember correctly. In fact, any time someone was shot up at work which was any job, it was referred to as “Going Postal”. USPS hated all the press using that term. LOL
Trump 2024
LOL haters hate.
The ban was put in place in 1972. “Going Postal” didn’t happen until 1986.
Yup
This makes one wonder if the ban had never been enacted, “going postal” might never have become a thing. It looks like a “solution” that helped make its own problem.
IIRC, it seems like there were several cases in close succession.
that is how it works
You should really read up on it. He broke numerous laws and regulations from the national guard, where one of the weapons came from, and the postal system not to mention local and state.
The ban was meaningless except to the folks who followed it and had no choice but to run or hide and some of them died anyway.
It’s not much different from most work places. Just because it’s a federal thing doesn’t make it anymore different than any other job that tells you that you can’t carry.
We will never law our way outta evil
I would agree with that.I’ve heard of numerous school districts and individual schools that have dropped the “gun free zone” classification and allowed qualified people to carry. I have yet to hear about any of those having a shooting.
the ban was put in place because of the governments fear of the postal employees and what they might do leading up to the postal strike, had army friends delivering and sorting mail….quartermasters corps what fiasco
thus the real problem ws not with guns but with the Postal Union. typical. Funny thing, that was all the work of gummit employes. NOT private citizens.
Well I guess I stand corrected regarding placement of the law but I do remember and stand on the fact that “I” remember the term coming about (going postal) after some dude that was an employee shot up the post office.
Thanks Dean.
last summer a post office in the neighboring town got robbed at gun point. my comment was “lol” on the news web. .. I got alot of down votes from the Karens. I still think it was funny.
I bet the guy has enough stamps to last him the rest of his life.
alot of high 5’s from the guys… ” going postal” never meant so much. lol
Thankfully, they are “forever” stamps.. they protect us from Joe Biden’s inflation.
The Postal Service was formed in 1792. There was no ban on guns where you went to pick up or send mail. Interestingly, it was formed in part to avoid censorship employed by the Crown to try to suppress their political opponents in colonial times. (oddly relevant to the times) Richard Nixon was the one who reformed the postal service in 1970 or so… therefore… if we quickly glance at NYSRPA v Bruen… well we have the answer.. there was no gun ban in a “service or business” that solely relied on postage for funding. Matter of fact, I’d argue it… Read more »
Subject may become irrelevant at the pace the USPS keeps raising postal rates, they aren’t gonn’ be long in the pool. I and friends are down to only using USPS snail mail to mail in taxes….to irritate the IRS.
Runny thing.. way back when the West was being opened up and tamed, iny Express and Wells Cargo ran freight, passengers, mail. and they ALWAYS were armed.Went with the territory. Stations also had armed “security. Those details wou;d stand in clear support of the principle that folks can and were armed as the mail travelled and ws delivered.
This law along with the GFSZA need to be smacked down; neither have any basis to support them in 1791. The GFSZA is even worse with having no basis to exist from the commerce clause, being overbroad, and simply being one of the dumbest laws out there.
Just think: EVERY school that ever got shot up was already a place where murder was a crime. Since the stupid GFSZA was passed, every such school was also a gun free zone in theory but NOT in practice.
Further, NO ONE school hat ever got shot up had any Good Guys with GUns who actually DID shoot back and sttop the murders. Parkland and Uvalde did have armed “security” that stood there and watched and/or hid round the corner, never firing one shot to stop the threat.
The Texas Tower. At a college in Texas a guy with a brain tumor went up in a tower and started shooting down at students. Students went to their vehicles and retrieved their weapons and kept the shooter pinned down till the law arrived.
I can’t even remember the last time i went to the post office sans concealed carry. it’s been decades ago. Concealed means concealed.
thank you.
This is an interesting case. I’m curious as to how they will fight it. The postal system and it’s employees like to play both sides of the fence in being private and government.
The goal of Govt is to make everyplace everywhere a “sensitive” place to ban guns in public.
When the government is one under Communist control only a fool would believe his liberties will be respected. I see only one way forward if the Constitution is to be restored, and it wont be thru the Communist courts. History is our guide.
most postal clerks ,and western union offices had armed attendants because they dealt in cash
Cash, of course, being more important than people. /s
The legally armed aren’t the problem and the left knows this.
The way the law stands today, you are not even allowed to have a firearm in the parking lot of a post office.
Unless the grounds and doors to building does not have posted signs.
WILL NOT COMPLY seems to make sense these days. Relying on the courts is a fools mistake.
no, the lw is the law and not dependent upon proper signage being present. Even when signage IS present it does not comply with specific state mandated signage, necessary to make state law binding. Somehow Unka toopud gets a pass, and their “law” is supposedly binding with or without signs of any sort.
this is rue. I have always wondered what sort of “logic” the clowns had when they dreafted this. Seems tens of millions of folks drive everywhere with their runs in their cars, no issues. but somehow when anyone crosses that invisible theoretical line in the dirt between the public sidewalk and the macadam of the post office car park, those drivers somehow madjickally become violent goons that will murder anyone in sight just because they ARE in sight. Funny thing, MY everyday carry pistol never has even twitched in its holster when I cross that line and “ener” post office… Read more »
Degrees of stupid. Like driving down the road with a gun in the car, and the road passes too close to a school.
Strict scrutiny logic test applies in re Bruen. The government must present a compelling case based upon the best evidence available to restrict the exercise of an enumerated right. There is no such evidence when considering armed citizens entering federal or state buildings armed. The only people who go ‘postal’ are postal workers and not members of the general public. Therefore no compelling evidence exists to restrict public access while armed. Quite the opposite. The general public needs protection from ‘postal’ postal workers. Logic is a stern schoolmaster.
Let’s be reminded that the US Republic is still and has always been a Republic that is governed under “Govt of The People”. The Govt is in fact owned by The People. It’s absurd that the “Govt” will try and represent “the Govt” as some entity other than The People. A Federal facility is “a building or part thereof owned or leased by the Federal Government, where Federal employees are regularly present for the purpose of performing their official duties.” 18 U.S.C. § 930(g)(1). The People of the US Republic are the real people who own or lease a facility… Read more »
Thinking of possible ways to counter the government’s restriction on the peoples use of their facilities, I found one required use of the USPS facility. As per Chat GPT: “Post Office: You must visit a post office to send registered mail. This is due to the higher level of security and the need for the post office to document the chain of custody.” If you are legally bound to send registered mail, then it seems the government could not refuse you that service because you are exercising your constitutional rights. A judge may find such a case hard to dismiss.… Read more »
When do antigunners care about those pesky little things called FACTS????
Most important here is that the government is appealing the decision. When the government loses in court, there should BE NO APPEAL! Nobody in the governmenta side of our legal system should have the power to say “meh, we want a do-over”.
We The People ARE the Govt, at least it used to be. Those acting on behalf of the Govt to push anti-COTUS agenda, are commies and should be deemed domestic terrorists.
Does amyone know the name of the defense lawyer (not Govt) who will be there in the 11th ckt appeals court?
The defense attorneys are all from the Federal Defender’s Office Middle District of Florida
The only reason firearms are not permitted in a Post Office, has more to do with the fact that the USPS is a federal agency; and not because there is any particular reason for disallowing firearms in a post office.
One of the most famous “going postal” incidents happened close to me, and I know that at least 2 of the innocent employees there didn’t take their pistols to work that day, due to pressure from their employers. Today, many post offices have after-hours services in the lobby when the facility is unmanned. Some of these are targets for bad guys who don’t hesitate to be armed. I know on such office dangerous office that’s just a stone’s throw from a police headquarters. Not admitting anything, but how stupid would I be to leave my gun in the car while… Read more »
As far a strict protections go, don’t forget Uvalde.
HLB
almost.. but not quite. Then WHY is there a specific law all of its own that bans public possession of firearms on ANY Postal Service property.. even a window in a strip mall, or a substation in a grocery store. That tlaw is theoretically binding in EVERY place owned or controlled by USPS at any level.
The Post Office weapon ban (not just guns) exists because a law was passed back in the late 70’s/early 80’s where there was a mass shooting incident with a disgruntled worker in a major regional distribution hub (Chicagoland area). It was one of the largest active shooter incidents prior to the Columbine shooting. The Dems introduced it and law-and-order Republicans concurred. Then Ronald Reagan signed it. Reagan was no stranger to gun control, either. As Governor of California, he signed a law to disarm radical black groups like the Black Panthers who were fond of toting shotguns and hunting rifles… Read more »
“Judge Kathryn Kimball ruled the federal ban on possession of firearms in post offices is unconstitutional because it violates the Second Amendment.” One correction to this story is that the ban wasn’t just in post offices… it covered the entire post office property to include the parking lot. From Jan ‘04 to Mar ‘07 and Mar ‘08 to May ‘13 every time I went into a post office I saw people carrying firearms and nobody got shot in there. OK, so it was in Iraq and Afghanistan, but they still had the signs up saying it was against federal law! Having… Read more »
And it’s not just IN post offices, it has been interpreted as anywhere on the property, including a vehicle parked there.
Not 100% true. If the parking lot is itself not “fenced” off (fence, curbing, etc), then that lot is not deemed to be just for the PO facility. Next we have the issue of we don’t really know who the parking lot belongs to, “fenced” or not. Next we have issue of the drive-up mailboxes, do I need to leave my firearm at home if I want to use the drive-up mailboxes? The whole thing is more stoopid than that geriatric Joe Biden and his crack kid Hunter.