USA – -(Ammoland.com)- Are you afraid of the new Fix NICS H.R. 4477 that was attached to H.R. 38, the National Concealed Carry Reciprocity Act?
If so, why? Look, here’s the deal. Like everyone else who cares about advancing our right to bear arms until we realize our full constitutional guarantee (the Second Amendment recognized as our carry permit, concealed or otherwise), H.R. 38 is probably the single best piece of pro-rights legislation ever voted on in the House of Representatives in my lifetime… even with H.R. 4477 attached.
That said, I’m not willing to send it to the cemetery of other dead bills because some yahoo on a Youtube video, a fundraiser in the form of an email, or comment from someone who saw it an email or on that same dopey Youtube video, tells me something that isn’t true.
Unlike that dope, I’ve actually read the bill and I’ve actually spoken to several attorney’s who have read the bill and have all agreed that it isn’t some anti-gun piece of legislation secretly written by Obama that will add millions of names to the rolls of prohibited purchasers because they missed a credit card payment back in 1982.
Let’s get something straight, right here and now. I don’t like the bill and the reason I don’t like the bill is because we shouldn’t need it in the first place.
I’m not a big fan of writing new law simply to make people comply with the same law that’s already on the books. This fallacy that there is some breakdown in the NICS background check system because the Texas mass killer scumbag was able to buy a gun legally when he shouldn’t have isn’t a breakdown in the NICS system. NO. It’s a breakdown at the Air Force for not doing what they should have done under current law. Got it?
I’m also a realist. H.R. 4477 was going to pass either as a stand-alone bill or attached to H.R. 38, and there wasn’t a damn thing I could do about it, except, maybe…read it. Upon doing so, I am in complete agreement with the National Rifle Association who has fact-checked Rep. Thomas Massie, a man I admire greatly and someone who has been a guest on my program and found him to be flat out wrong on his analysis of H.R. 4477.
Here’s the text from the NRA ILA:
In a recent Facebook Post, Congressman Thomas Massie (KY-4) included several inaccurate statements about H.R. 4477, the Fix-NICS bill. Below are some facts to set the record straight:
CLAIM: “The bill will also advance former President Obama’s agenda of pressuring every branch of the administration (such as the Veteran’s Administration) to submit thousands of more names to the NICS background check database to deny gun purchases.”
FACT: The bill requires that federal agencies submit the names of anyone who is already prohibited by law from possessing a firearm to the NICS background check database. This differs from former President Obama’s efforts, in which he attempted to administratively create new categories of individuals who were prohibited from possessing a firearm. H.R. 4477, by contrast, is aimed squarely at individuals like the perpetrator of the recent murders in Texas, who should have been reported to NICS because of his disqualifying criminal history.
CLAIM: “The bill is being rammed through, without a hearing, in a very nontransparent process, and it will be passed by attaching it to the popular concealed carry reciprocity bill which already has enough votes to pass on its own.”
FACT: The bill went through a very thorough and public markup session of its own. And like the concealed carry reciprocity bill, the Fix NICS bill would also have enough votes to pass on its own.
CLAIM: “It spends over half a billion dollars to collect more names to include in a list of people who will never be allowed to own a firearm.”
FACT: The bill incentivizes states to transmit the records of individuals who, under current law, are already prohibited from possessing a firearm. It does not create new categories of restriction.
CLAIM: “It compels administrative agencies, not just courts, to adjudicate your second amendment rights.”
FACT: Since 1994, administrative agencies have been required to report individuals who are prohibited under current law from possessing a firearm to NICS. Fix-NICS merely adds additional layers of transparency and accountability to the process, as a well as a new 60-day deadline for the government to resolve claims of records that have been erroneously included in NICS.
Like everyone else, I would have rather seen a clean, stand alone H.R 38 National Concealed Carry Reciprocity bill passed and sent to Trump’s desk, but this bill, even with the “Bump Stock Provision and Fix-NICS attached, is fine by me. Why? Because Mick Jagger and Keith Richards were right when they sang,
You can’t always get what you want
You can’t always get what you want
You can’t always get what you want
But if you try sometimes you might find
You get what you need..
We need this bill to come out of the Senate and land on Trump’s desk. If you have any questions about this, here’s some advice. Read the bill and relax.
About Mark Walters
Mark Walters is the host of two nationally syndicated radio broadcasts, Armed American Radio and Armed American Radio’s Daily Defense with Mark Walters. He is the Second Amendment Foundations 2015 Gun Rights Defender of the Year award recipient and co-author of two books, Lessons from Armed America with Kathy Jackson (Whitefeather Press) and Lessons from UnArmed America with Rob Pincus (Whitefeather Press)
No not really, just pass the bills and relax already…!
The proposed federal concealed carry reciprocity act is a dangerous piece of legislation – the ramifications of which most don’t see. It’s like the pervert dangling candy before a child’s face. We pay a heavy price when we abandon PRINCIPLE for EXPEDIENCY.
See: https://www.renewamerica.com/columns/huldah/170710
or on my website here: https://publiushuldah.wordpress.com/2017/07/19/from-duty-to-be-armed-to-permission-to-carry/
Hear,Hear,now if some of We The People would listen and learn the Constitution.
Malarky.
The TRUTH about the “supremacy clause” – our Constitution does not delegate to the national government authority to restrict our arms, ammunition, regulate firearms dealers, do background checks, etc.
https://publiushuldah.wordpress.com/?s=The+TRUTH+about+the+%22supremacy+clause
@Rich, Congress and the S.Ct use the commerce clause to control arms and ammunition.
Seems to me we need to get rid of the commerce clause. First Heath care now Gun control.
Except for Vermont, NO STATE has adopted Constitutional Carry without a legislative transition. Some states, such as Kansas had state-wide open carry of handguns, rifles and shotguns. But Kansas law allowed cities to ban open carry or loaded carry. It took about 30 years of work to elect the right people to office and then it only took three years to get state-wide concealed carry, with many restrictions and “gun free areas” signed into law over Governor Kathleen Sebelius’ veto. Then in quick time, every year the law changed for the better in that places such as churches and hospital… Read more »
Thank you, Mark, for setting the record straight and for calling out Congressman Massie’s disinformation campaign. The truth is that he never supported national reciprocity even BEFORE the “fix NICS” language was added.
[quote] Author: Renov8 Comment: I don’t buy the disinformation coming from either side that the fix Nics bill is a good measure. Instead of putting law abiding gun owners in a database, why not remove them entirely,[ end quote] You seem to be reposting fake news… NICS does not make lists of people, it isn’t registration. ATF does record gun make, model and serial numbers from the manufacturers and teh manufacturers record which dealer gets that gun. The dealer keeps the 4473, that is the only place the buyers name and gun details go together. When a dealer goes out… Read more »
@jim… You are taking two comments I made from two distint paragraphs. Each comment has a purpose and its not as you wrote or intended. First…I don’t buy the disinformation coming from both sides that the fix Nics bill is a good measure. Anytime you allow bureaucrats to fidget with our Rights(already permitted) you invite subjective interpretation and bias to enter into something that should not be there in the first place. Instead of fighting this crap legislatively, it should be fought in the courts. Period. Second…When one goes thru a background check, the NICS will determine whether or not… Read more »
I’ll second that!
Nobody should have to have a license to exercise their rights. A lot of people don’t get it. Could you imagine having to get a license to exercise free speech? How about a license to plead the 5th? Suppose the cops kick in your front door at 3 am because your license protecting you from unreasonable search and seizure had expired? There is no way to justify requiring a license to exercise our rights. The whole idea is absurd. Some states have Constitutional carry laws. No license required. It’s better, but the reality is that there should not be any… Read more »
@Rich, Correct. Penn v. Murdock, et. al.
Bingo, Spot On.
You are dead on regarding a license or permit being required and it turning a given right into a privilege!
This is not a good thing! What is it people do not understand about the words, Shall Not Be Infringed? These words
were to be the last words on the subject!
I think you said it all when you the writer stated you had to consult a lawyer or two?
I don’t buy the disinformation coming from either side that the fix Nics bill is a good measure. Instead of putting law abiding gun owners in a database, why not remove them entirely, unless the “is” a problem with them buying a gun. Seems obvious it would be less costly to manage a database with less data points than with more. Only those with reason not to have a gun should be on “any” database. I don’t like this arguement being fought in the legislature…its something for the courts, for they are the ones that set precedent and make law… Read more »
“Instead of putting law abiding gun owners in a database, why not remove them entirely, unless the “is” a problem…”
There is no federal database of gun owners (at least not legally) and Fix Nics doesn’t create one. So your wish has been granted like.
Ammoland/NRA Censorship lives
@Rich, The system just gets overwhelmed due to the popularity of the site. Concise comments do best. Welcome to the site, and I look forward to reading your comments.
i have been reading for many years and over those years many posts were not posted
I agree. This site is not that popular for 35 comments to become a barrier to posting. Hogwash. Its called “moderated”. Simply admit to it and we will fall in line…Not!
It appears that the NRA is censoring dissent. I just sent the my opinion again as a member. Afterwards the proceeding url link for (contact us) is broken. Non-members cannot leave feedback and THEY have that right as any other sportsman.
NRA/GOA Member. If they continue to support this BS. I’ll go back to just being a GOA member the only NO COMPROMISE gun lobby.
WE NEED THIS BILL. If the NRA lawyers have read it and agree that it is not an impediment then let it go thru.The Airforce by not doing its job along with the many public agencies that are supposed to report people who are not supposed to have guns have been allowing them to get guns and kill innocents.I sold guns in California for over 20 years.And many were times I was glad there were checks.On more occasions then I care to remember I had a customer that I had a hinky feeling about and wanted to refuse the sale.But… Read more »
Perhaps you trust the folks at the NRA to have the best interest of We The People when it comes to the 2 nd. amendment. however they have proven historically to be just the opposite,from NFA in 1934 up to today,Just No.
As a younger man I’d just considered becoming a NRA member but a certain incident was stirring and I wanted to see how it would be handled. The Year “1994! “! As a Vet it was important to me but the NRA caved. They threw many things under the bus back then that prevented me from joining their ranks for almost two decades. As a middle-aged gunowner on the downside of the hill. I am now again rethinking my current membership in the NRA. Only the GOA have our backs. Pffft! to the NSSF also. They were for this crap… Read more »
You read too many propaganda opinions from SPLC and bloomberg/soros groups. A BRADY 10 day waiting period was going to pass on fast track. The NRA got an “instant NICS” check that had a 3 working day delay, there was no you can’t buy in the law then or as proposed in Fix NICS. The only people denied are convicted criminals, court case decided insane and domestic abusers. I agree with it all despite the fact that DV is too often used as a ploy in divorces. But it is clear that just as there is a difference between spanking… Read more »
I worked in a gun store 50 years ago. State law said that you could not sell a gun to a criminal, just a federal says. But the boss/owner wondered how he was to know that a stranger was not a legitimate buyer? He was worried about being sued for racial, ethnic or some other reason if he refused to sell to somebody.He also didn’t like spending an hour wasted or risk a theft. He was happy when Illinois adopted the FOID because it allowed him to ask every buyer for their FOID before he showed them a gun and… Read more »
Still seems like the Hughes Amendment & Lautenberg Amendment all over again. NRA says pass it & will work on a fix afterward. Guess what? Still waiting …….
this NRA site is a site of censorship! Constitutional Concealed Carry Reciprocity Act Constitutional – Is a Trojan Horse.. The bill is a dastardly trick and a Trojan horse for institutionalizing licenses, permits, national ID cards, etc. And the end game of all those licenses, permits, national ID cards and such is eventual confiscation of all arms. And after that extermination. Here is the 2014 edition: https://www.congress.gov/bill/113th-congress/senate-bill/1908/text Also, the federal government has no constitutional authority to make ANY laws dictating who may and who may not carry arms; or under what circumstances people may and may not carry arms across… Read more »
The kind of Trojan you don’t want covering your six!… and It’s a FIX alright. The line has move in America’s politics. Democrats ARE NOT what they seem. That moniker has been a cover for decades now. They are SOCIALISTS/COMMUNISTS!… and WE must refer to them as such or they will keep saying things like Democrat,Liberal or Progressive. This bill is how they work like termites that slowly erodes your foundation… until there’s nothing left. But the Left. The FIX! All Red, Green and Yellow. Hitting us in the head with that Hammer and/or neutered with the Sickle! Bring back… Read more »
Totally agree. The Communist Democratic party erodes our rights slowly and we rationalize these intrusions as good for the population as a whole. Want to bet no PPT will be allowed and all sales must go through NICS in the next several years? How about no gifting to other family membersNow you do have a national database of firearms owners. Wait another decade or two and no one will remember when you could buy and sell firearms freely. Of course we need to do this to restrict all dastardly felons from being able to buy a firearm. In all of… Read more »
Look here, NICS was the big fix championed by the Brady Organization and grudgingly agreed by the NRA. Mostly because of the demo-commie majority in the House at the time. Brady got what they wanted and gunowners finally got off their asses and elected a republican house in 1996. If NICS doesn’t work, it’s because of the demo-crats that enacted it in the first place. Maybe intentionally. After the totally corrupt politics from 2008 – 2016, Benghazi, Fast and Furious etc., all of a sudden we should trust then? This while career RINOs have proven that all they care about… Read more »
Watch Lilve PD, ‘Sir you have an outstanding warrant, I don’t know what it is for but you are under arrest”.
NICS will only see a warrant not the reason for it.
I think we’ve some sheep dip in wolves clothing.
What is the H.Amdt. 493 to H.R.38/H.R.4477?
As of 12/09/2017 the description for this amendment has not been received.
Purpose:
Amendment in the nature of a substitute.
House Amendment Code:
(A001)
House Tally Clerks use this code to manage amendment information.
Its ‘1994’ All over again.
Analogy – Can you put a price on a pecan… a good one? You just cannot put a price on a good nut.
H.R. 38 Concealed Carry Reciprocity also creates a National Database for CCW holders. We ALL know who’s next or should I say What’s next. You can feel the pain of that pecker’s beak with a new slice removed. OUCH!
[quote]Author: Tony W. Comment: H.R. 38 Concealed Carry Reciprocity also creates a National Database for CCW holders. We ALL know who’s next or should I say What’s next. You can feel the pain of that pecker’s beak with a new slice removed.[end quote] No, it does not create a database of anything but criminals who will not be approved by NICS. There is not record made or kept of who is authorized to buy a gun. It almost seems that some people think there is a constitutional right to rob banks, rape girls and that they will be denied because… Read more »
“There is not record made or kept of who is authorized to buy a gun.”
Oh Really? Prove it.
If what you say is the case why did the Democrats want to put together a “no fly” list?
Why is it when my local PD did a background check on me, certain information regarding my buying habits was listed…all of them.
I smell gullible…
As I am also perfectly congruous with, Al and Mike marked the spot very well, Eric hit the nail on its head, KEVIN knocked that basterd home… gettin ‘er done and VAN made that brass head shine! The “Democratic Socialists” get nothing… nothing…. because nothing could been done on LV. Got an itch… let’s pass a law to scratch it. H.R. 38 is plain commomsense and self-evident in a CCW U.S.A. We don;t like those whose aim is to slice our privates off a sliver at a time until there is nothing left. P.S. Funny how its different when viewed… Read more »
Is Anyone Under The Illusion That The So Call NICS Fix Bill Is Harmless Huffpo thinks new gun control is a sure thing,of couse they are known for blowing hot air Compromise is, generally, not a dirty word. Husbands and wives do it all the time. Business partners do it too. Anytime two individuals or groups have a disagreement, compromise helps them manage that disagreement. Where it becomes a dirty word, however, is when you know the other side won’t change their endgame. They’ll keep pushing for the same thing, so by compromising, you simply give them what they want… Read more »
I’m a lawyer currently handling several “gun rights” cases in NY. Uphill battles to be sure. I’ve read the Fix Nic bill. My opinion, no damage done. Added 60 days to correct mistakes is good. Now, this combined with concealed carry reciprocity might help get it through the Senate. Fix Nic has “bipartisan” support. Reciprocity does not. The Dems claim they are for “safety.” The combination of these bills will expose their hypocrisy. Most of them will actually vote against the “gun safety” bill in order to protects some state’s denial of constitutional rights. It is more important to them… Read more »
@RBean, are you in Martindale-Hubble?
Kudos to you Mark! Good article and I give you huge props for “adjusting course” on your opinion of this bill. I believe it was last Sunday when you were interviewing Alan Gottlieb on your show, that you didn’t sound so convinced (and neither was I) that combining these two bills was a good idea. Alan made some great points to the contrary and convinced me, and apparently you too, that doing so was the best course forward to get National Concealed Carry passed. Any questionable items in the “NICS Fix” bill could be amended in the Senate or even… Read more »
Go to popular gun blogs and check out the comments. It’s easier to be angry on the internet and curse the NRA than it is to actually think for oneself and read the bill. Needless to say, I’m glad to see this article written.
The NRA has been selling out the American gun owner for over 100 years. They actively supported the NFA in 1934, the Gun Control Act in 1968 and the oppositely named Firearm Owners’ Protection Act of 1986 (FOPA) which removed the right of Americans to purchase new automatic or AOW weapons, a clear violation of the Second Amendment.
All of this was done with the cooperation of the sellout Progressive owned and run Republican Party as well.
stop blocking me from posting.
i hear that
FACT: The bill went through a very thorough and public markup session of its own. And like the concealed carry reciprocity bill, the Fix NICS bill would also have enough votes to pass on its own. IF SO, THEN: Pass it on it’s own merits. This sounds like a bit of misinformation here. FACT: Since 1994, administrative agencies have been required to report individuals who are prohibited under current law from possessing a firearm to NICS. Fix-NICS merely adds additional layers of transparency and accountability to the process, as a well as a new 60-day deadline for the government to… Read more »
National Database was set up in Australia look how that ended I also heard any one with an unpaid parking Ticket can be Targeted by This bill
Australia made a national database of gun owners. NICS is a database of criminals.
Anybody wearing clothes might be armed. Anybody naked might be drunk, a nudist sun worshiper or a rapist.
It is the details that matter when judging people or laws. If the meter maid [is that sexist?] is your girl friend and you beat her up when she puts a ticket on your car, you’ll end up “on the NICS list” because it is domestic violence.
National Database was set up in Australia look how that ended I also heard any one with an unpaid parking Ticket can be Targeted by This
Amen I agree this is a case of if we win we still lose .I agree reciprocity is extremely important but not at the cost of throwing some of are brothers under the bus .
I like Mark. I have been a guest on his show. I understand why he would be supportive of this bill. However, I also know that a red flag should go up whenever militant anti-gunners like something. What IS true is that FIX NIC’s is hurried legislation in response to a horrific crime. When the attitude is “we must do something, this is something therefor we must do it” the risk is enormous. The problem with taking a stand on the language of a bill without considering how humans will twist the proposed intentions is that it simply ignores history.… Read more »
Kevin: As a PS and something the NRA is, for whatever reason, ignoring, there is absolutely nothing in the “Fix-NICS” Bill to prevent the VA from continuing to put any veteran who has been under custodial care for even the briefest period of time into the NICS no-buy system list. The Bill that would have fixed this, and which NRA has done nothing to see move forward, is HR629, The Veterans 2nd Amendment Protection Act. It has been stalled in committee since last February. To repeat, this Bill fixes nothing, does not protect our veterans from further abuse and, by… Read more »
I agree with Vanns40. First off, how do we know that NICS wasn’t intentionally flawed to allow a percentage of “Prohibited Persons” to be approved. Then ask yourself what is a “Prohibited Person.” If I recall correctly, even felons get their day in court. If they are found guilty they become “Prohibited Persons.” That is constitutional. Do we really want the Beltway Bozos deciding what constitutes a “Prohibited Person?” Why can’t we simply follow the constitution and give all citizens their right of due process? This is where the problem lies! Is PTSD a permanent condition? Becoming a “Prohibited Person”… Read more »
I heartily second Kevin’s comments. Throw a pile of money at bureaucrats and ask them to use it to add names to the database, gee, I wonder what will happen? Think maybe they will find names to add to the database? No matter what it takes?
If the folks on the other side are cheering you on, you might just be running towards the wrong goal line …
Well atleast someones posts are making on here!?
Brady did not create a gun registry – ATF has publicly complained on multiple occasions that their inability to create a database using the transfer form paperwork hinders their efficiency for tasks like firearm traces. Additionally, it’s unreasonable to blame the NRA for Brady. As was the case with the GCA in 1968, the bill was going to pass in some form no matter what NRA did. When stopping the bill isn’t possible, mitigating the worst aspects is the next best option. In the case of the GCA of 1968, this meant no blanket ban on handguns and no national… Read more »
There is a database already set up in America. It is the 4473 you have to fill out to purchase a firearm from a dealer.Our best defense is the one the Founding Fathers set up the ownership of firearms by the public and our ability to use them against an unlawful government.
The 4473 forms stay at the dealer’s. If teh dealer goes out of business the forms do go to the ATF but they are only supposed to be organized by gun make, model and serial number. The names of te buyers are not supposed to be directly searchable.
The Universal Background Check IS a database of people, it is registration and is to be avoided.
Fix NICS might just be a detour to stop UBC.
I believe some are living in bubbles of their own creation. Any pro-gunners whom would believe that things in today’s world were just as simple as that must know nothing of or about security. You indicate that by giving ground increases our lot.It does not. Specifics do not need to be legislated. Just adopted. Besides who benefits… really? You continue to let the socialists to keep redefining everything simplistic as they wish. Well today’s world it what you get. IoT, the cloud, the internet, wireless/wired comms are all data-based. Admitting the truth is hard. Tell me what in all that… Read more »
Jim:
What is your response to this.
I think we’ve some sheep dip in wolves clothing.
What is the H.Amdt. 493 to H.R.38/H.R.4477?
As of 12/09/2017 the description for this amendment has not been received.
Purpose:
Amendment in the nature of a substitute.
House Amendment Code:
(A001)
House Tally Clerks use this code to manage amendment information.
During the ever-so-long years of the Obama reign the ATF systematically photocopied 4473 forms during routine? visits to FFLs. I know several, and they ALL experienced this pernicious form of infringement.
It might still be occurring.